Originally posted by robbie carrobieEhrman used to be a hard core evangelical Christian. During the course of his research he saw that his former his former beliefs were simply unwarranted. The body of evidence led him to see that things were not quite what he had presumed them to be.
i always find these types of things quite distasteful, why? they focus on what is not contained in scripture, rather than what is. Anyone who, after reading the bible, and who cannot answer why God permits suffering, is hardly likely to be able to tell you anything else that is trustworthy in the context of biblical understanding. Any eight year o ...[text shortened]... d intellectual', men, yet revealed them to babes and it is a matter of wonderment in our eyes.
Originally posted by Rajk999I'm inclined to agree with rwingett,(whose name by the way baffles me🙂 ), I doubt most people could remember what someone else meant like five minutes later.
Tweaking, altering, modifying, summarising, changing, even fabricating ? ... YES
To the point where the alleged words of Christ become meaningless? NO.
Edit: 30 years from now when Im 80 and by brain is old and weak, Im sure I can give my grandkids a pretty acccurate idea of what Rwingett on RHP said and believed in without even repeating what you said verbatim. Its not that hard. Imagine if I was inspired by God to write!
not that I'm disagreeing with you. Hell no. But this is a case of sketicism being healthy, imo.
Good ol' buckky keeps bringin up these interestin threads.Thnx dude.
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Originally posted by rwingettDeny the divine element my dear Ming and you shall come to all sorts of strange and unusual conclusions. I myself have never understood evangelical Christians, infact, to be honest, they freak me out a little.
Ehrman used to be a hard core evangelical Christian. During the course of his research he saw that his former his former beliefs were simply unwarranted. The body of evidence led him to see that things were not quite what he had presumed them to be.
Originally posted by Rajk999And then later in the thread you totally contradict this claim by implying that you have reason to believe that the words do contain at least some accuracy - whereas here you say you have no possible way of knowing.
Im not going to waste my time reading up on that but I can guarantee one thing. There is no way in hell that you can assign any meaningful probability to the words of Christ being accurate, 2000 years after he allegedly said them.
Here are two probabilities worth remembering though.
100% - thats the probability that you can benefit from what Christ taught.
That is probably true of about just about any text you can possible think of. It all depends on how you apply it.
0% - thats the probability that you will get salvation if you deny the existence of Christ (Im not saying you do).
An interesting claim. It rather contradicts all those claims about God being just, loving, compassionate etc.
I dont think there are any religions who deny that Christ existed.
Well that is to be expected. Either the religions have nothing to do with Christ (in which case they remain silent on the matter) or they are related to Christianity and thus tend to be rather favorable.
I don't believe that Hinduism has anything to say about Jesus specifically and most Hindus that would talk about Christ would probably do so based solely on what they have heard from Christians.
The judgment of Christ is for all mankind, all of whom will be judged according to their works.
And there you go again contradicting yourself. Just a moment ago you said I will be judged for saying that Christ didn't exist, now its based on my works. Make up your mind.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhat? What do you think you are? You go door to door to spread the word. You sound like a textbook evangelist to me.
Deny the divine element my dear Ming and you shall come to all sorts of strange and unusual conclusions. I myself have never understood evangelical Christians, infact, to be honest, they freak me out a little.
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Originally posted by rwingettAhh you see Ming, that where you are wrong, we go from house to house to have spiritual discussions and see if anyone is interested in scripture, if they are not, we wish wish them well and move on. We dont speak in tongues, let snakes bite us, sing happy clappy songs at the kingdom hall while rolling about the kingdom hall floor possessed by the spirit, faith heal, nor solicit donations on tv to fund our lavish lifestyle, etc etc etc, that is what freaks me out, dig?
What? What do you think you are? You go door to door to spread the word. You sound like a textbook evangelist to me.
Originally posted by robbie carrobiee·van·ge·lism
Ahh you see Ming, that where you are wrong, we go from house to house to have spiritual discussions and see if anyone is interested in scripture, if they are not, we wish wish them well and move on. We dont speak in tongues, let snakes bite us, sing happy clappy songs at the kingdom hall while rolling about the kingdom hall floor possessed by the sp ...[text shortened]... cit donations on tv to fund our lavish lifestyle, etc etc etc, that is what freaks me out, dig?
–noun
1. the preaching or promulgation of the gospel; the work of an evangelist.
2. evangelicalism.
3. missionary zeal, purpose, or activity.
You fit the definition to a 'T'. You go trolling for converts and spreading the gospel. Whether you do it soberly or in a charismatic fervor does not matter, it is evangelism all the same.
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Originally posted by rwingetttrolling? hardly, infact, i am very fussy about who i talk to. i dont do yappy dogs, so if you have a bothersome dog, forget it, i also dont do antagonists, if you are antagonistic, cya. We are not in the habit of dragging persons off the street you know.
e·van·ge·lism
–noun
1. the preaching or promulgation of the gospel; the work of an evangelist.
2. evangelicalism.
3. missionary zeal, purpose, or activity.
You fit the definition to a 'T'. You go trolling for converts and spreading the gospel. Whether you do it soberly or in a charismatic fervor does not matter, it is evangelism all the same.
yes we are evangelising, but i would like to state that the original meaning of the word, as it is understood in common culture is different. Evangelical churches dont evangelise, not as we do from house to house, but do all the other freaky stuff that i mentioned. Deny it if you will dear Ming.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou confess to evangelizing. You are guilty as charged. All of your picayune qualifications to that confession are irrelevant. Henceforth you are condemned to wearing a scarlet 'E' on your clothing while in public. This will afford the good citizens of the land ample warning to take leave of your presence in a hasty and judicious manner.
trolling? hardly, infact, i am very fussy about who i talk to. i dont do yappy dogs, so if you have a bothersome dog, forget it, i also dont do antagonists, if you are antagonistic, cya. We are not in the habit of dragging persons off the street you know.
yes we are evangelising, but i would like to state that the original meaning of the word, ...[text shortened]... se to house, but do all the other freaky stuff that i mentioned. Deny it if you will dear Ming.
Originally posted by rwingettLol, guilty as charged, but what about all those good people that like speaking to me?
You confess to evangelizing. You are guilty as charged. All of your picayune qualifications to that confession are irrelevant. Henceforth you are condemned to wearing a scarlet 'E' on your clothing while in public. This will afford the good citizens of the land ample warning to take leave of your presence in a hasty and judicious manner.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieThere are none. Your prideful nature has deceived you. The fact that some take pity on you and humor you should not be construed as genuine interest. Your time would be better spent working on jigsaw puzzles at home.
Lol, guilty as charged, but what about all those good people that like speaking to me?
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Originally posted by rwingettWhat of the 750 persons that are baptised every day? They are not merely humouring us, oh dear Ming may you live to time indefinite, but great one you must realise that we are helping people free themselves from every type of addiction, from prostitution, from violence and from obeisance to pure materialism in its emptiness, search the very depths of your psyche and give ear to the words of the ancient prophet of God and see if this is not so,
There are none. Your prideful nature has deceived you. The fact that some take pity on you and humor you should not be construed as genuine interest. Your time would be better spent working on jigsaw puzzles at home.
(Isaiah 61:1-2) . . .The spirit of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah is upon me, for the reason that Jehovah has anointed me to tell good news to the meek ones. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to those taken captive and the wide opening of the eyes even to the prisoners; to proclaim the year of goodwill on the part of Jehovah. . .
Originally posted by buckkywhat do you think is unclear from the new testament?
When I read the Bible it seems very hard to understand , and I loose interest real quick. I can't be alone in this reaction to the" Word of God ". I think it's time we receive a new message from God that people like myself can get into. The Bible is to weighed down with primitive ideas, and stories that can't be taken seriously. If the average Joe needs to kn ...[text shortened]... is a pile of jibberish. I need clarity not secret meanings that only a few can comprehend.
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Originally posted by buckkyRead a modern translation instead of a KJV or similar. The Anglo-Saxon in the KJV is a bit hard to make out.
When I read the Bible it seems very hard to understand , and I loose interest real quick. I can't be alone in this reaction to the" Word of God ". I think it's time we receive a new message from God that people like myself can get into. The Bible is to weighed down with primitive ideas, and stories that can't be taken seriously. If the average Joe needs to kn ...[text shortened]... is a pile of jibberish. I need clarity not secret meanings that only a few can comprehend.
Then try reading it not like a document but as the series of books that it is. Some of the books are going to be more interesting than others. For example, I personally find Revelation's overblown symbology dreadfully dull. I've never made it through the entire book and don't care if I ever do because it's the one book in the NT that offers nothing to me that I can use.
And ultimately, if you just don't like the stories in the NT and they do absolutely nothing for you then move on, because at that point if you're going to dwell on what is worthless to you then it was your fault that you didn't move on to something more productive for you.