Originally posted by chinking58I would say your god set up rules that are infantile. If some one does something that he doesn't like, even the tiniest infraction, then some one's blood must be spilled.
Yes, God is limited by His own rules.
In the garden of Eden He said, 'If you eat from this tree you will die'.
They did, and death entered the picture. When we continue to rebel, and claim we don't need Christ's offer of salvation, then that death continues in eternity; a spiritual death, meaning a separation from God forever.
The justice that w ...[text shortened]... . Thanks be to God, someone willing and qualified (Jesus Christ), came forth and did just that!
I don't think it's justice; I think it is sick and juvenile. Your god just holds a very violent grudge.
1 edit
Originally posted by chinking58How about " Hey you rotten S.O.B.s that are conniving to get to my Son hung on a cross" . and just then a cross for each and every one on them appears on it with them on it , and "Hang there forever and ever as a reminded that ,, I exist "
The three O's are just a few characteristics of God. But the character of God is Love!
So yes, He did say something like what frogstomp suggested, but more like this:
Hey, I LOVE you guys so much! And even though you used your gi ...[text shortened]... l enjoy each other's company forever!
Something like that...
bet the contemporary historians would have written about that.
Originally posted by chinking58Well said. Bravo.
The three O's are just a few characteristics of God. But the character of God is Love!
So yes, He did say something like what frogstomp suggested, but more like this:
Hey, I LOVE you guys so much! And even though you used your gift of free will to reject me and my ways, I am willing to send my beloved son to suffer the punishment you all deserve. ...[text shortened]... oy and peace in Me, and we will enjoy each other's company forever!
Something like that...
Although I do not share your views, I respect your clear articulation of your beliefs. Clarity of thought from a traditional Christian in these forums is like a breath of fresh air in a room full of smoke. If there were a few more like you, we agnostics might find a reasonable debate and sharing of differences.
Congrats also on your son's success! I work with a bunch of scholastic players, and seeing them do well is real joy.
Originally posted by telerionYou should leave a message on the omniscient God's answering machine.
I would say your god set up rules that are infantile. If some one does something that he doesn't like, even the tiniest infraction, then some one's blood must be spilled.
I don't think it's justice; I think it is sick and juvenile. Your god just holds a very violent grudge.
I'm sure He'd appreciate your finite opinion on whether He was correct in what He did. 😉
It sure seems like you're rejecting God for philisophical reasons, tel...
Originally posted by DarfiusWhen it's so easy, Darfius, why waste time with formality?
You should leave a message on the omniscient God's answering machine.
I'm sure He'd appreciate your finite opinion on whether He was correct in what He did. 😉
It sure seems like you're rejecting God for philisophical reasons, tel...
In the words of Prof. Jigoro Kano, "Maximum efficiency, minimum effort."
Obviously, you've got nothing, so save it.
1 edit
Originally posted by telerionSick and Juvenile?
I would say your god set up rules that are infantile. If some one does something that he doesn't like, even the tiniest infraction, then some one's blood must be spilled.
I don't think it's justice; I think it is sick and juvenile. Your god just holds a very violent grudge.
You don't know what (Who) you're missing tel! The blood that spills when we sin is our own blood; or at least it should be. But (quoting the Bible now), ' God is not willing that any should perish!' , so He offers His own Son to bleed for us. It's amazingly, incredibly and wonderfully good of Him, but not all that complicated.
One more point, if I may: the real punishment that we (would) get for our rebellion (the tiny infraction you mention), is that we get what we want; namely, to be apart from God. So, if that is what you really, truly want (make sure you think about that for a while), then go ahead and not accept the gift He holds out to you so lovingly! Oh but do think about it with all honesty.
23)This is what the LORD says:
"Let not the wise man boast of his wisdom
or the strong man boast of his strength
or the rich man boast of his riches,
24) but let him who boasts boast about this:
that he understands and knows me,
that I am the LORD , who exercises kindness,
justice and righteousness on earth,
for in these I delight,"
declares the LORD.
Jeremiah 9:23,24
Well, I thank you for not being too pushy. I like your style. Your fruit seems good, not rotten.
Although Darfius will likely deny what I am about to say, I was saved and spent the vast majority of my life as an xtian. I served faithfully in my church and spent time on the mission field being used by Christ to bring souls to Him.
I don't believe in it anymore. When I reflect on it, leaving xtianity for me was probably what it is like for some one to realize that Mormonism is false, or Islam, or Scientology. Even though your old friends are convinced you just don't see it, you feel comfortable that they are really the blinded ones.
But back to our posts, I personally think that if a god has such a grudge that he must have the blood of his only son to be satisfied, then I'm not interested. At least, I wouldn't praise him. Fear him, certainly, but not praise or respect him.
Originally posted by telerionWow!
Well, I thank you for not being too pushy. I like your style. Your fruit seems good, not rotten.
Although Darfius will likely deny what I am about to say, I was saved and spent the vast majority of my life as an xtian. I served faithfully in my church and spent time on the mission field being used by Christ to bring souls to Him.
I don't believe ...[text shortened]... erested. At least, I wouldn't praise him. Fear him, certainly, but not praise or respect him.
Thank you Tel, for your candor.
Any good fruit in me is the 'fruit of the Spirit' mentioned in Galatians.
I know what it is to discover falshood and move. I was raised in the Catholic church and actually went to seminary for four years, but was in a secular college before I ever heard the Gospel. Later in life I took my family to a church that seemed great on the surface but then discovered that their doctrine was unorthodox. Moved on.
Yet, Tel, when it comes to believing in Christ as savior, I can't see how one could simply not ...'believe in it anymore.' What happened bud? (You can write me directly if you like.)
And where does this grudge idea come from? If God had a 'grudge', we would never have heard from Him. At least not a message of love and mercy!
I appreciate that you don't dismiss me outright. Being told things like, "You must never have believed," or "You are a liar," is very insulting.
My deconversion from xtianity took quite a while. While I cannot name a specific issue that brought me out of that system, I think I can come up with a few things along the way that led to my leaving the faith. It's a gradual thing. I'll try to send you something. While I'm at it, I think I owe KellyJay the same post. I suppose I should PM it. Then again I've promised to post quite a few things now. A post like that takes some time and consideration.
Originally posted by telerionI could say the same. A pastor friend frequently asks me to give an account of my loss of faith, or deconversion.
My deconversion from xtianity took quite a while. While I cannot name a specific issue that brought me out of that system, I think I can come up with a few things along the way that led to my leaving the faith. It's a gradual thing. [snip] A post like that takes some time and consideration.
Perhaps you and I, if we set to work, could spawn a new genre of inspirational writing: the de-spiritual autobiography.
I can say one thing about my journey: if the Christians I know were not hastening so rapidly toward obvious evil in the name of goodness (ecological and humanitarian callousness in support of political candidates that oppose women's access to abortion, for example), it might have taken me longer to leave.
Originally posted by WulebgrIf your faith was based on anything but Christ, there was nothing to "leave".
I could say the same. A pastor friend frequently asks me to give an account of my loss of faith, or deconversion.
Perhaps you and I, if we set to work, could spawn a new genre of inspirational writing: the de-spiritual autobiography.
I can say one thing about my journey: if the Christians I know were not hastening so rapidly toward obvious evil in the ...[text shortened]... that oppose women's access to abortion, for example), it might have taken me longer to leave.
*braces for the inevitable "bigot" to come*
Originally posted by DarfiusDo you go out of your way to antagonize people? Do you consider it a mark of success if you draw a barrage of wrathful condemnation down upon your head? By willfully contributing to the amount of persecution you receive, does this help with your martyr complex? Are you only able to feel fulfilled if you are using your faith to stir up discontent? I think you would be severely disappointed if everyone just ignored you instead of attacking you.
If your faith was based on anything but Christ, there was nothing to "leave".
*braces for the inevitable "bigot" to come*
Originally posted by rwingettI don't antagonize people. It just isn't proper for people to claim to have been Christians and then be so derisive towards it. If you had a true relationship with Christ, you couldn't "leave". That's just fact.
Do you go out of your way to antagonize people? Do you consider it a mark of success if you draw a barrage of wrathful condemnation down upon your head? By willfully contributing to the amount of persecution you receive, does this help with your martyr complex? Are you only able to feel fulfilled if you are using your faith to stir up discontent? I think you would be severely disappointed if everyone just ignored you instead of attacking you.
And I was making a joke about bracing. It seems like no matter what I say, I'm hammered.