A REASONABLE approach to the Bible

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Did you intentionally respond to a post directed at c3 and ignore the post directed at you?

I responded to a post for c3.
In a moment I'll see if I can find a post to me which should merit some response.

I see a couple of posts from you.

I know what I wrote jaywill. What you seem to fail to understand is that you drew an illogical conclusion from it. It doesn't say what you think it says. You do this with scripture as well.

Well, let's see. You packed up and migrated away from our discussion of Matthew 25. The last I saw you did not respond to questions asking for your supposedly better interpretation of the parable of the ten talents.

Argument by "Ho hum, I have better things to do" doesn't do much to demonstrate there your analysis of the parable is better.

Next?

Is this what you believe is the point Jesus is making in John 5:39?

I answered that post.
What next?

Here's something I may not have spoken to.

If you read the words of Jesus in context, then you'd know that Jesus often says something in the abstract and then follows with clarification.

You're not serious are you, that I don't know that abstract (or divine and mystical) things spoken by Christ are not afterwards expressed with some amount of explanation?

What are your particulars here?

If you had done this with John 5:39, you might understand what He was saying.

John 5
24“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
38“You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent.
39“You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

It seems that what you want to do is say that the passage is relevant to the crowd of Jews standing around but is not relevant to us today listening to Jesus.

Well, you take Christ's words as speaking to you WHEN and IF you like what is being said. But when you DO NOT like what is being said, then you excuse yourself by saying the context does not allow it.

The truth of verse 25-40 is every bit as true today, I mean TODAY as it was then.

The date today is January 30th, 2017. I don't know where you are but where I am it is not 9:30 PM. And if you hear the voice and the words of Jesus (now as the Holy Spirit) and believe them you pass out of death into life. And you also will not come into judgment.

Particularly, His words about honoring Him as you would honor God the Father in 23 -

" He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. "

If Jesus is not to you as God Himself in honor, you probably are not hearing His word. And you are not believing Him who sent Him. And you then do not have eternal life. And then you are in line to come under judgment and have not passed out of death into life.

Appeals to context do not give us reasons here to close our hearts in unbelief towards Jesus Christ.

Now some people do close their hearts towards Christ to not believe in Him. But because they consider themselves to be pretty good people who really do not need saving by Jesus, they want to derive from His words whatever phrases they can to basically assure themselves that they can ethically make it as good men.

These more agreeable words they deem require no belief in the miracles of Christ, And these words they euphemistically label as His words "while He walked on earth."

Keep in mind the fact that when Jesus is speaking of "the scriptures", He is speaking of the OT. Jesus is saying that in order to have eternal life they need "His word abiding" in them. That the OT (Moses) testifies about Jesus bringing "His word".

That is true that at that time "the Scriptures" was the Hebrew Bible. Quite true this is.
But it is not true that only the words of Moses are important at this time. Read it again;

"Truly, truly, I say to you, He who hears MY WORD ..."

He does not say there "He who hears Moses's word".

"He who hears My word and believes in Him who sent ME has eternal life ... "

Yes, He does say that they search the Scriptures. But WHO do the Scriptures testify to ultimately? He says they testify concerning Him - Jesus. They do search the Old Testament Scriptures but the Old Testament Scriptures testify to the One Who is standing before them speaking.

So the Old Testament Scriptures which they search with hearts closed to the Son of God (equal with the Father in honor) actually condemns them in their unbelief.

"Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; there is one who accuses you: Moses, in whom you have set your hope.

For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote concerning Me." (v.45,46)

Today as well as then, even though you search whatever Scriptures you search, either Old Testament or New Testament Scriptures, they testify of Jesus Christ. Not coming to Jesus Christ you remain in death. You remain under judgment, You have not received divine life in regeneration and will not be in the resurrection of the righteous (though you will be in the resurrection of those who have done evil). You are condemned even by the words of Moses.

In principle you are condemned by whatever in the Bible you are putting your hope in BESIDES Jesus Christ.

John 5
46“For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me.
47“But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

You now seem to be saying what I am saying.
You would believe Christ's words if you believed the Scriptures.

Not believing Christ words causes you to make explanations about Jesus speaking "while He walked on earth" which actually is code for - " I reject the miracles and the resurrection of Jesus. "

That doesn't sound good when you wish to done on piety. So it is better to say " I do believe the words of Jesus while He walked on earth ." ie. disbelieving the lies, myths, legends supposedly that are an integral part of His testimony that we should honor Him as we honor the Father.

In short, in order to have eternal life, they need to hear His word, believe His word and have His word abide in them.

It is not just "them" it is us today. And that is what He says exactly:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, An hour is coming ..."

This hour, 9:57 pm on January 30th - THIS hour too.

" ...An hour is coming and it is now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live."

This is different from verses 28,29. That hearing is by those who are physically dead in the tombs. Verse 25 is about those who before physical death are already in spiritual death. They need to be made alive in regeneration. They need to be reborn.

Those who hear the words of Jesus and believe rather than reject, pass from death into life. Even before they are resurrected physically from the tombs they receive Jesus as life.

My interpretation of John 5 is far better than yours. And yours actually seeks to dishonor the Son. But it is dishonoring the Son with something like the kiss of Judas, a facade of affection.

That facade is wrapped up in the expression "Jesus while He walked on earth."

Originally posted by sonship
I responded to a post for c3.
In a moment I'll see if I can find a post to me which should merit some response.

I see a couple of posts from you.

[quote] I know what I wrote jaywill. What you seem to fail to understand is that you drew an illogical conclusion from it. It doesn't say what you think it says. You do this with scripture as well. [/quote ...[text shortened]... mystical) things spoken by Christ are not afterwards expressed with some amount of explanation?

You're not serious are you, that I don't know that abstract (or divine and mystical) things spoken by Christ are not afterwards expressed with some amount of explanation?

If you understand this, then why did you post all that nonsense about John 5:39?

Jesus explains what He meant in John 5:46-47. Couple this with John 5:24,38 and the meaning is clear:

Jesus is saying that in order to have eternal life they need "His word abiding" in them. That the OT (Moses) testifies about Jesus bringing "His word".

In short, in order to have eternal life, they need to hear His word, believe His word and have His word abide in them.

You keep showing that you don't care what Jesus actually says or doesn't say. Instead you impress your own preconceived biases and beliefs onto His words.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]You're not serious are you, that I don't know that abstract (or divine and mystical) things spoken by Christ are not afterwards expressed with some amount of explanation?

If you understand this, then why did you post all that nonsense about John 5:39?

Jesus explains what He meant in John 5:46-47. Couple this with John 5:24,38 and the meaning ...[text shortened]... ays or doesn't say. Instead you impress your own preconceived biases and beliefs onto His words.[/b]

If you understand this, then why did you post all that nonsense about John 5:39?

Your question is mostly nonsensical to me.

If you are not willing to come to Jesus that you may have eternal life then you didn't get the teaching there.

In Him was life and the life was the light of men.

Jesus explains what He meant in John 5:46-47. Couple this with John 5:24,38 and the meaning is clear:

[quote] "For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote concerning Me." (v.46)

This certainly includes more than just prophecy. Moses wrote concerning God. Jesus is God incarnate. So Moses wrote concerning Him.

" But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?" (v.47)

Jesus is saying that in order to have eternal life they need "His word abiding" in them. That the OT (Moses) testifies about Jesus bringing "His word".

In short, in order to have eternal life, they need to hear His word, believe His word and have His word abide in them.

You keep showing that you don't care what Jesus actually says or doesn't say. Instead you impress your own preconceived biases and beliefs onto His words.

I care for what Jesus said as evidenced by the number of times I carefully quote what He said. So this accusation is a slander and a lie.

You don't care not only for what Jesus said but that Jesus existed.
If you did you would not be trying to amputate large portions of the biography of Him.

Not only Moses testified of Jesus. God His Father testified. And since you reject the miracles and signs which were part of His work which the Father gave Him to do, don't tell me you care about His words or His life.

" ... for the works which the Father has given Me to finish, the works themselves which I DO, testify concerning Me that the Father has sent Me. (v.36b)

Regardless of the convolutions to prove you have a better interpretation, the fact of the matter is that you reject the works He did. Since they admit supernatural acts, you excise them away from the New Testament as not being a part of His life "while He walked on earth."

Moses testifies of Christ in this chapter.
The Hebrew Scriptures in total testify of Christ in this chapter.
John the Baptist testifies of Christ in this chapter.
The works of Jesus themselves testify of Christ in the chapter.
And the Father Who gave to Jesus to perform the works testifies of Christ in the chapter.

The chapter begins with the work of healing a man by a miracle ( 1-9).
However He did this on the Sabbath. And because He did a healing work on the Sabbath the Jews sought to kill Him (v.16).

They sought to kill Him for this testifying work.
You seek to eliminate Him as well by saying He did not perform the work.
Instead, only what Jesus said "while He walked on earth" is the devilish method by which you deny the miraculous testifying work.

I don't trust your interpretation. And I sure don't think you care more for what He said OR for His works that accompanied His words.

I think as of yet His word applies to this kind of twisting modernism -

"But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in yourselves." (v.42)

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne

Jesus is saying that in order to have eternal life they need "His word abiding" in them.

I have no problem with that, then or now.

That the OT (Moses) testifies about Jesus bringing "His word".

If you don't believe the words of Jesus and His deeds which are the works going along with His words, why should I trust you to believe the similarly astounding words and deeds God did through Moses ?

You excise the miraculous from the life of Jesus.
You surely must do the same with the miraculous works done by God which Moses had many words about.

With this kind of unbelief I am supposed to be impressed that you can be trusted to have a clearer understanding of the ministry of Jesus Christ ?

Its not going to happen to this Christian.

Were the deeds of Christ important to John's Gospel ?

"Moreover indeed man other signs also Kesis dod nefpre jos dosco[;es, which are not written in this book.

But these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name." (John 20:30,31)

The signs of Christ are important to the Gospel along with His words.
Don't let ThinkofOne deceive you into thinking they are not important because they have nothing to do with his "when He walked on earth" system of error.

Believe the words and the signs so that you can have divine life in the name of Jesus Christ.