1. Joined
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    24 Apr '12 15:13
    A Request For Bible Interpretation

    I have reason to be interested in how the two following passages might fit together. This is not asking for how each of them is to be separately read; I can find that elsewhere. It is how the one affects/is to be read in light of/means, in terms of the other. I ask for sincere replies. You don’t have to be an expert, but there are a few here who I think might be good at this sort of thing.

    I have put into bold, two verses that were highlighted in my source document. I suppose those are my primary interest.

    If there are serious answers I will explain my reasons for this question.

    First, Luke 7 [1] And when he had finished all his words in the hearing of the people, he entered into Capharnaum. [2] And the servant of a certain centurion, who was dear to him, being sick, was ready to die. [3] And when he had heard of Jesus, he sent unto him the ancients of the Jews, desiring him to come and heal his servant. [4] And when they came to Jesus, they besought him earnestly, saying to him: He is worthy that thou shouldest do this for him. [5] For he loveth our nation; and he hath built us a synagogue.
    [6] And Jesus went with them. And when he was now not far from the house, the centurion sent his friends to him, saying: Lord, trouble not thyself; for I am not worthy that thou shouldest enter under my roof. [7] For which cause neither did I think myself worthy to come to thee; but say the word, and my servant shall be healed. [8] For I also am a man subject to authority, having under me soldiers: and I say to one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doth it. [9] Which Jesus hearing, marvelled: and turning about to the multitude that followed him, he said: Amen I say to you, I have not found so great faith, not even in Israel. [10] And they who were sent, being returned to the house, found the servant whole who had been sick.

    Second, Luke 15 [16] But he said to him: A certain man made a great supper, and invited many. [17] And he sent his servant at the hour of supper to say to them that were invited, that they should come, for now all things are ready. [18] And they began all at once to make excuse. The first said to him: I have bought a farm, and I must needs go out and see it: I pray thee, hold me excused. [19] And another said: I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to try them: I pray thee, hold me excused. [20] And another said: I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come. [21] And the servant returning, told these things to his lord. Then the master of the house, being angry, said to his servant: Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the feeble, and the blind, and the lame. [22] And the servant said: Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room. [23] And the Lord said to the servant: Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. [24] But I say unto you, that none of those men that were invited, shall taste of my supper.
  2. Standard memberRajk999
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    24 Apr '12 16:08
    Originally posted by JS357
    A Request For Bible Interpretation

    I have reason to be interested in how the two following passages might fit together. This is not asking for how each of them is to be separately read; I can find that elsewhere. It is how the one affects/is to be read in light of/means, in terms of the other. I ask for sincere replies. You don’t have to be an expert, but t ...[text shortened]... ed. [24] But I say unto you, that none of those men that were invited, shall taste of my supper.
    I personally cannot see a connection. Of course it is possible to twist the meaning and create one.

    The first passage is an illustration of what Christ called great faith. The centurion likens his ability to command his soldiers to make something happen, to Christ commanding that his servant be healed.

    The second is series of excuses people might make why they are unable to do the will of God. However none of those are acceptable and the parable concludes that no such people will taste of his kingdom.

    Is the connection or fit you are referring to, is that the man who has a wife was under his wifes authority and the wife was commanding the man the way the centurion commands his soldiers ?
  3. Joined
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    24 Apr '12 16:18
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    I personally cannot see a connection. Of course it is possible to twist the meaning and create one.

    The first passage is an illustration of what Christ called great faith. The centurion likens his ability to command his soldiers to make something happen, to Christ commanding that his servant be healed.

    The second is series of excuses people might make ...[text shortened]... ifes authority and the wife was commanding the man the way the centurion commands his soldiers ?
    I appreciate your thoughtful comments. I will say more after giving more time for other thoughtful replies.
  4. Standard memberRJHinds
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    24 Apr '12 18:01
    Originally posted by JS357
    A Request For Bible Interpretation

    I have reason to be interested in how the two following passages might fit together. This is not asking for how each of them is to be separately read; I can find that elsewhere. It is how the one affects/is to be read in light of/means, in terms of the other. I ask for sincere replies. You don’t have to be an expert, but t ...[text shortened]... ed. [24] But I say unto you, that none of those men that were invited, shall taste of my supper.
    The only connection I can see is the differnce in the two situations.
    Christ has the power and authority to command what He wills.

    However, He prefers to treat others as equals and wishes them to show
    their love for Him by doing His will rather than there own will, as occurred
    in the second case with the invited guests.
  5. Joined
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    25 Apr '12 16:07
    Originally posted by JS357
    A Request For Bible Interpretation

    I have reason to be interested in how the two following passages might fit together. This is not asking for how each of them is to be separately read; I can find that elsewhere. It is how the one affects/is to be read in light of/means, in terms of the other. I ask for sincere replies. You don’t have to be an expert, but t ...[text shortened]... ed. [24] But I say unto you, that none of those men that were invited, shall taste of my supper.
    Thanks to both. I promised to state my reason for this question so here it is in short.

    This is from my father's NT, the "revised Challoner-Rheims version" published 1941. He passed away in 1979 so I can't ask him. One of my sisters pointed out the fact that he marked the two pages involved, and only those pages.

    He put an asterisk by each parable, and a note by one, referring to the page number of the other.

    Anything more I say will be interpretive; as much representing what I think this means, as what it might have meant to him. He was a man of duty and honor, having only achieved an 8th grade education because his family needed another wage earner. He was eventually a district manager of a regional grocery store chain, and after a reversal, build himself back up, for his own family of wife and 5 kids.

    I imagine the reference to the man who forsook the "great supper" to be with his wife (a wife who, literarily, is placed in parallel with a farm and oxen) would have puzzled him. My dad demonstrated that he thought his dedication to his wife and family was his way of fulfilling a Christian duty.

    Interestingly, a verse that closely follows this parable of the great supper is controversial -- which is evidenced by there being a footnote on the page. The footnote is part of the publication, not added by my dad or anyone else. I will repeat both here:

    The verse: "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, and wife and children, and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple."

    The footnote: "Hate: i.e. love less. Jesus does not command us to have a feeling of hatred toward our relatives, but teaches that we should pay no attention to their requests if these are detrimental to our spiritual welfare."

    My dad didn't mark this verse, perhaps because the footnote addressed the obvious difficulty he would have had; and clearly, that many have had with this verse.

    My dad was devout and prayerful all his life, so whatever caused him to mark and connect the verses he did, didn't shake his faith.

    Well, that was more than I intended to write, but there it is. Further thoughtful comments that do not turn this thread into something it is not, will be appreciated.
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    26 Apr '12 04:471 edit
    Originally posted by JS357
    A Request For Bible Interpretation

    I have reason to be interested in how the two following passages might fit together. This is not asking for how each of them is to be separately read; I can find that elsewhere. It is how the one affects/is to be read in light of/means, in terms of the other. I ask for sincere replies. You don’t have to be an expert, but t ...[text shortened]... ed. [24] But I say unto you, that none of those men that were invited, shall taste of my supper.
    Fascinating, thanks for posting.

    It is possible your Father had heard a call from God, perhaps to go into the ministry in some way but didn't go because of his commitment to his family. I perceive he was a good man who was touched by these scriptures and possibly felt he had missed out on his calling not just by lacking the faith of the centurion, but also his obedience and trust that the Lord would sustain him and his family.

    A touching insight into his life which calls out something I was once told "eternal life is free, but discipleship will cost you everything".
  7. Standard memberRajk999
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    26 Apr '12 18:211 edit
    Originally posted by JS357
    Thanks to both. I promised to state my reason for this question so here it is in short.

    This is from my father's NT, the "revised Challoner-Rheims version" published 1941. He passed away in 1979 so I can't ask him. One of my sisters pointed out the fact that he marked the two pages involved, and only those pages.

    He put an asterisk by each parable, and comments that do not turn this thread into something it is not, will be appreciated.
    Your father sounds like a man after my own heart.

    There are many who are content to simply 'appear to serve' Christ. They do the outward things like sing and clap and go to church, they say 'halleuyah' all day, they boast of a 'personal relationship with Christ', but their hearts are far from Him.

    In your fathers case he seems to be what the Bible calls a devout man. Devout people serve God by their actions and not just by talk..

    Here is an example ..

    Act 10:1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
    Act 10:2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.


    Cornelius was devout. Your father seems to be similarly devout and served God by his actions of being a good father, good husband and good provider, plus reading the Bible and praying.

    Back to Luke 14 and the parable of the supper... Christ is simply saying that just about anything in life can be used as an excuse or be a hindrance to ones eternal life. There is nothing wrong with owning a farm or looking after animals or having a wife, but these things can lead one away from the things Christ said to do.

    If it were me, I would have said to Christ .. "my wife and I are coming to the supper.." instead of .. "I cannot come because I have a wife".

    Seems like your father took the same route and took his entire family along to the supper. I can see that kind of religious influence in a lot of your posts .. a good thing in my opinion.
  8. Joined
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    26 Apr '12 19:16
    As my dad would have said, keep it simple stupid.

    The #1 commandment is to love your God above all else, because all else came from God. This means if other things come between you and your God, you are to forsake it for your God, including your own life. Then we are commanded to love our neighbor as ourself. Through these commandments contains all of the law.

    I think we all have forsaken God at times in favor of other things. Perhaps we did so because we harbored a particular sin we felt we could not part with or perhaps we did not know for sure whether it be the voice of God or questioned the wisdom or goodness of God in doing what he commanded us to do etc. As a person of faith, however, we must have faith in the fact that God wills what is best for us, which may equate to what is good for our neighbor, no matter how hard the task at hand may be. That means that when asked to lay down our own lives, as Christ was asked, we are to do it with the knowledge that "good" will come from it.

    Pretty weighty stuff if you ask me. It's what seperate the men from the boys.
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