19 Jul 21
Christian is a self appointed title and means different things to different people.
This means that trying to define universal Christian beliefs is laughable.
Not that you will realize this or agree with it, but decided to day it anyhow. Good luck with your discussion about things you do not understand.
@eladar saidOne can certainly identify certain core beliefs that Christians profess.
This means that trying to define universal Christian beliefs is laughable.
A Christian is defined by his or her beliefs with regard to the life, death and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. A Christian believes that God sent his son Jesus, the messiah, to save the world.
A Christian believes that Jesus was crucified and died in order to offer the forgiveness of sins and the opportunity for what they see as "salvation". A Christian believes that Jesus rose from the dead and later ascended to heaven.
A Christian believes these things and endeavours to obey God's commandments, including those that Jesus is believed to have stipulated while he was alive, and demonstrate, by doing good works, that their faith is not dead.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
21 Jul 21
1 edit
What happens if I don't follow the beliefs?
The important thing is only important if Christ is alive.
Then what in your life is the living Christ who is available and knowable as a
Person.
If Christ is not risen or if Christ is not alive and knowable then none of the Bible makes any difference.
Out of the many beliefs you are concerned with, the main thing is what will you do with the resurrected, living, real, and available Lord Jesus. If Christ is not alive none of the beliefs make any difference at.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
21 Jul 21
1 edit
The worst possible outcome.
I like to repeat very important points. If Christ is not living, not raised from the dead and not knowable, it makes no difference.
If Christ is who He says and is alive now to be known the worst possible outcome is having no living relationship with Christ.
What happens if I DO follow the beliefs?
If Christ is truly raised from the dead, alive, and can be known and can join Himself with you, being so joined sets you in God's eternal purpose for which He created all things including you.
If Christ is not real and is not raised from the dead, none of the beliefs matter.
Eat, drink, be merry for tomorrow you die and rot.
If no Christ all is vanity of vanities, all is reaping the wind.
The best possible outcome.
The best possible outcome is to be squarely in the will of God.
To see what the climax of the will of God is i recommend two chapters in particular - Revelation 21 and 22. That is the last two chapters of the Bible.
That is where everything according to God's will is headed.
That is the climax - Revelation 21 and 22.
That is what God wants. And that is why God created all things.
That is best possible outcome - the will of God.
As you read there will be some things which you just don't understand too well.
But I think that if you read with an opened heart the Holy Spirit will impress upon
you something that He does want you to know NOW about this best possible
outcome.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
21 Jul 21
1 edit
How do I effect this drastic change in outcomes?
If Christ is not Son of God and not raised then it makes no difference.
But Christ being who He says He is and having been raised, a good place to start is to acknowledge that you have nothing, can do nothing, can only trust Him for what He is and what He does and what He has done and will do.
"Lord Jesus, without You Yourself, Lord I have NOTHING. Without You I bring NOTHING. Without You I can offer nothing. I lay my hand s on You Lord Jesus. Even my faith comes out of You. I put my trust entirely in You and Your work. Begin O Lord, to work in me."
That is a good prayer to "Let go and let God."
Christ has to work in you.
Christ met the requirement of God on your behalf.
Thank Him and receive Him in faith with His finished work on His cross.
Christ brings in a transformation of life.
He can fill you up and blend and mingle with you.
Just pray this little prayer. Takes two minutes.
I kind of assume this is a bit of sarcasm. But to plant an acorn may only take two minutes. In time that acorn will grow and grow into a great tree plant.
"Do not despise the day of small beginnings" says Zechariah 4:10.
Divine life is powerful.
Eternal life is mighty.
It may take only a minute to receive the Lord Jesus as a seed of God's life into your spirit. But do not be misled by the small beginning. What is mighty and awesome may seem to have a very minute and barely perceptible initial beginning.
If it take you two minutes to open your life to Jesus Christ not aware of what chain reactions are going to gradually unfold in your being, that is ok. It is two minutes that you will be thankful for for eternity.
"Do not despise the day of small beginning."
22 Jul 21
@sonship saidI 'opened my life to Christ' for nearly 20 years.
How do I effect this drastic change in outcomes?
If Christ is not Son of God and not raised then it makes no difference.
But Christ being who He says He is and having been raised, a good place to start is to acknowledge that you have nothing, can do nothing, can only trust Him for what He is and what He does and what He has done and will do.
...[text shortened]... t you will be thankful for for eternity.
"Do not despise the day of small beginning."
I was taught a soteriology much like I presented in the OP.
I believe this actually does potential followers a grave disservice by glossing over the real difficulties involved in living out this life, here on earth.
I noticed that you, too, are completely dismissive of advice aimed only at this earthly life. You want your supernatural Jesus and your heaven, or else it "doesn't matter".
In so doing, you have ironically missed the importance of many of Jesus' own teachings aimed directly at this life, here on earth.
- Joined
- 20 May 16
- Moves
- 41776
22 Jul 21
@eladar said😁
Christian is a self appointed title and means different things to different people.
This means that trying to define universal Christian beliefs is laughable.
Not that you will realize this or agree with it, but decided to day it anyhow. Good luck with your discussion about things you do not understand.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
22 Jul 21
3 edits
I believe this actually does potential followers a grave disservice by glossing over the real difficulties involved in living out this life, here on earth.
I wasn't writing a book above, only a post with limited scope.
It is important to me to point people as soon to the intimate relationship with the living Person of Christ. A believer never graduates from the simplicity that at each stage of the Christian life a single eye and undivided heart for the living Person of Christ is the critical thing.
Take for example, Paul's final written words in the NT, 2 Tim. 2:22 -
"The Lord be with your spirit. Grace be with you."
Like "I wrote many, many things to you Timothy. Above all, never forget, the Lord Himself is with you. The Lord with you is grace to empower you and enable you to live this life."
I don't want to "gloss over" this now so I write a little more. Paul warned the Corinthians of losing the simplicity and purity loving Jesus, above all. At that as a virgin wife presented to Him as a dear loving Husband.
"For I am jealous over you with a jealousy of God; for I betrothed you to one husband to present you as a pure virgin to Christ. But I fear lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your thoughts would be corrupted from the simplicity and the purity toward Christ." ( 2 Cor. 11:2,3)
It is prevailing to keep that love affair vibrant by telling the Lord Jesus often that you just love Him. You just love Him for Himself. You just receive the living Spirit of Christ into your spirit and never be distracted from the fact that the Lord is actually with your spirit.
I noticed that you, too, are completely dismissive of advice aimed only at this earthly life. You want your supernatural Jesus and your heaven, or else it "doesn't matter".
I did not mention heaven I don't think.
And I was not trying to be too long but to the point.
In this post I have added something about loving the Lord and often telling Him so. Loving Him keeps the simplicity and purity of Christ being central in your life and vibrant. When tempted by sin, how effective it is to just call on His name to touch Him and tell Him - "Lord Jesus. I love You. Lord Jesus thankyou you are with my spirit. Lord Jesus I love You Lord."
We draw near to Him and He draws near to us.
We are strengthened into the inner man, our regenerated spirit where the Spirit of Christ comes to unite with us.
The empowering grace to live flows from the Person being with us, within us who ask Him to come into us.
"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit." (Phil. 4:23)
So I need to turn to my spirit where the Spirit of Jesus is.
"The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brothers. Amen." ( Gal. 6:18)
We have to declare Lord Jesus, You are living in me. Lord Jesus You are my grace, my strength, my wisdom, my everything. Lord thankyou You are with my spirit."
The simplicity with which the believer initially RECEIVES Christ she should continue to WALK in all the days of her Christian life. Like Paul wrote the Colossians -
"As therefore you have received the Christ, Jesus the Lord, walk in Him." (Col. 2:6) If we continue as the pure virgins in love with Him initially, to WALK step by step trusting and loving Him we will do well.
He can be everything we need. If we need endurance we take Christ as our endurance. If we need love for the brothers and sisters in Christ we take Christ as our love. If we need patience we can take Christ HIMSELF as our patience. Whatever we need we take Christ Himself as that matter. We can trust Him to be everything FOR us.
In so doing, you have ironically missed the importance of many of Jesus' own teachings aimed directly at this life, here on earth.
Somehow I think you assumed I was only concerned with the next life or the next age. No, I am speaking to receiving Christ and continuing here to walk in Him.
And there is much, much more to say. One also needs companions in the faith. This Christian life God seems to have tailored to give us the incentive to companion up with fellow believers. Two or three coming together in His name with Him as the center increases that indwelling grace.
That is because it fulfills HIS purpose to build us up with others for His mystical Body. Do you have a few others you come together with for mutual encouragement and praying with one another?
22 Jul 21
@bigdogg saidExcellent post.
I 'opened my life to Christ' for nearly 20 years.
I was taught a soteriology much like I presented in the OP.
I believe this actually does potential followers a grave disservice by glossing over the real difficulties involved in living out this life, here on earth.
I noticed that you, too, are completely dismissive of advice aimed only at this earthly life. You want ...[text shortened]... ly missed the importance of many of Jesus' own teachings aimed directly at this life, here on earth.
@BigDogg
What happens if I don't follow the beliefs?
The worst possible outcome.
You don't get to call yourself a "Christian."
What happens if I DO follow the beliefs?
The best possible outcome.
You get to call yourself a "Christian."
How does one effect the change?
Continuous effort and reminders, possibly in the company of like-minded persons.
EDIT: by "follow the beliefs" I presume you mean to actually put them into practise, to turn the other cheek, to render unto Caesar, to resist not evil, etc. etc., not merely to convince oneself of the truth of some propositional content as a cognitive exercise.
24 Jul 21
@moonbus saidAnyone can call himself or herself a Christian, there is no qualification.
@BigDogg
What happens if I don't follow the beliefs?
The worst possible outcome.
You don't get to call yourself a "Christian."
What happens if I DO follow the beliefs?
The best possible outcome.
You get to call yourself a "Christian."
How does one effect the change?
Continuous effort and reminders, possibly in the company of like-minded persons.