1. Joined
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    12 Jul '12 17:22
    would i be right in understanding that mary was 12yrs old when she became pregnant with jesus? or is it a myth?
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    12 Jul '12 17:31
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    would i be right in understanding that mary was 12yrs old when she became pregnant with jesus? or is it a myth?
    well, the whole thing is a myth, but where did you hear about this 12 year old business?
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    12 Jul '12 18:37
    Originally posted by VoidSpirit
    well, the whole thing is a myth, but where did you hear about this 12 year old business?
    ha! yes, good point. a myth within a myth.
    reading a few web pages, they all suggested between 12 and 16. the majority had her at 12-13 due to girls of the time generally being married off as soon as they started menstruating. a few sites tried to work backwards from the age jesus died subtracted from the average age of death for a woman. both methods are inaccurate. i wondered if any christians on here new better or cared.
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    12 Jul '12 18:454 edits
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    ha! yes, good point. a myth within a myth.
    reading a few web pages, they all suggested between 12 and 16. the majority had her at 12-13 due to girls of the time generally being married off as soon as they started menstruating. a few sites tried to work backwards from the age jesus died subtracted from the average age of death for a woman. both methods are inaccurate. i wondered if any christians on here new better or cared.
    yeah mythical man was not really born, Biblical account of mythical man has not really
    influenced some of the most sublime achievements in art, literature and music and
    inspired millions by his alleged life course, his fabricated teaching and hypothetical
    example - the ship of fools.
  5. Joined
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    12 Jul '12 18:59
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    yeah mythical man was not really born, Biblical account of mythical man has not really
    influenced some of the most sublime achievements in art, literature and music and
    inspired millions by his alleged life course, his fabricated teaching and hypothetical
    example - the ship of fools.
    ive wrote a short essay a few weeks back on a virtual church called the church of fools, have you heard about it? is it connected to the ship of fools?
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    12 Jul '12 19:36
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    yeah mythical man was not really born, Biblical account of mythical man has not really
    influenced some of the most sublime achievements in art, literature and music and
    inspired millions by his alleged life course, his fabricated teaching and hypothetical
    example - the ship of fools.
    That's an interesting allusion, as it reminds us of the original work, which was a parody of the church.

    "The ship of fools is an allegory that has long been a fixture in Western literature and art. The allegory depicts a vessel populated by human inhabitants who are deranged, frivolous, or oblivious passengers aboard a ship without a pilot, and seemingly ignorant of their own direction. This concept makes up the framework of the 15th century book Ship of Fools (1494) by Sebastian Brant, which served as the inspiration for Bosch's famous painting, Ship of Fools: a ship—an entire fleet at first—sets off from Basel to the paradise of fools. In literary and artistic compositions of the 15th and 16th centuries, the cultural motif of the ship of fools also served to parody the 'ark of salvation' as the Catholic Church was styled." [emphasis added]

    One could say it was directed only at the Catholic Church, but in 1494 the CC was still the only game in town.

    Later analysis is similar. "Michel Foucault, who wrote Madness and Civilization, saw in the ship of fools a symbol of the consciousness of sin and evil alive in the medieval mindset and imaginative landscapes of the Renaissance. "

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_fools
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    12 Jul '12 20:23
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    ive wrote a short essay a few weeks back on a virtual church called the church of fools, have you heard about it? is it connected to the ship of fools?
    no i have not heard about it.
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    12 Jul '12 20:355 edits
    Originally posted by JS357
    That's an interesting allusion, as it reminds us of the original work, which was a parody of the church.

    "The ship of fools is an allegory that has long been a fixture in Western literature and art. The allegory depicts a vessel populated by human inhabitants who are deranged, frivolous, or oblivious passengers aboard a ship without a pilot, and seem aginative landscapes of the Renaissance. "

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_fools
    Its also an excellent song by The Doors (of perception), no doubt inspired by the
    original. I must confess, i have not read the book, although I would like to. When I
    was an art student I was a great admirer of Bosch. Now, art is conceptual and one can
    hardly attend a degree show without wondering if the students have been picked at
    random from a group of passers by, they should hand out paper bags in case of
    vomiting. I am very pessimistic about the creative arts to be honest.
  9. Standard memberRBHILL
    Acts 13:48
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    12 Jul '12 21:54
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    would i be right in understanding that mary was 12yrs old when she became pregnant with jesus? or is it a myth?
    Some states are lower then 18. Some african countrys are 9 yrs. Use wikipedia to see the stats.
    Mary was 16.
  10. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    13 Jul '12 00:551 edit
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    ha! yes, good point. a myth within a myth.
    reading a few web pages, they all suggested between 12 and 16. the majority had her at 12-13 due to girls of the time generally being married off as soon as they started menstruating. a few sites tried to work backwards from the age jesus died subtracted from the average age of death for a woman. both methods are inaccurate. i wondered if any christians on here new better or cared.
    Are there christians on here?
  11. Joined
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    13 Jul '12 01:26
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    ha! yes, good point. a myth within a myth.
    reading a few web pages, they all suggested between 12 and 16. the majority had her at 12-13 due to girls of the time generally being married off as soon as they started menstruating. a few sites tried to work backwards from the age jesus died subtracted from the average age of death for a woman. both methods are inaccurate. i wondered if any christians on here new better or cared.
    different cultures have different ages of consent but that's a pointless argument.

    consent was not even an issue when it came to women back then (and even up to now in some places), no matter what their age. they didn't have much choice and sometimes the man didn't have much of a choice either.

    however, in many cases there was a distinction between marriage and consummation. two children as young as 8 could be married, but they would not consummate until years later when both reached a mature (mature enough for the culture) age.
  12. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    13 Jul '12 09:56
    Originally posted by VoidSpirit
    different cultures have different ages of consent but that's a pointless argument.

    consent was not even an issue when it came to women back then (and even up to now in some places), no matter what their age. they didn't have much choice and sometimes the man didn't have much of a choice either.

    however, in many cases there was a distinction betwee ...[text shortened]... consummate until years later when both reached a mature (mature enough for the culture) age.
    Aren't they paired up when they are born in India?
  13. Joined
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    13 Jul '12 10:27
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Its also an excellent song by The Doors (of perception), no doubt inspired by the
    original. I must confess, i have not read the book, although I would like to. When I
    was an art student I was a great admirer of Bosch. Now, art is conceptual and one can
    hardly attend a degree show without wondering if the students have been picked at
    random f ...[text shortened]... t paper bags in case of
    vomiting. I am very pessimistic about the creative arts to be honest.
    i dont think the art world is as bad as people think. the papers only ever report on the controversial work like emin and hirst. i studied art back in the mid to late 90's and most of the people i knew were traditional painters and sculptors. i also worked in a few galleries around london in the early 00's and there were lots of exhibitions showing good old fashioned painting skills, but the only exhibitions to make the news were the ones trying to shock. there have also been a fair few painters nominated for the turner over the last few years. if you like bosch check out paul noble who has been nominated for this years turner.
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    13 Jul '12 17:49
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Aren't they paired up when they are born in India?
    don't know. india isn't a single culture. i wouldn't be surprised if this practice occurred in various tribal cultures within india.
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    14 Jul '12 05:551 edit
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    i dont think the art world is as bad as people think. the papers only ever report on the controversial work like emin and hirst. i studied art back in the mid to late 90's and most of the people i knew were traditional painters and sculptors. i also worked in a few galleries around london in the early 00's and there were lots of exhibitions showing good ...[text shortened]... ew years. if you like bosch check out paul noble who has been nominated for this years turner.
    The turner prize is just a gimmick, advertisers get a plug and some 'artist', gets 15 minutes of fame.
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