An account of debating a creationist

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Yes I have already stated that all things are possible, it does not necessitate that all things are conceivable, especially silly hypothetical scenarios.

The Zen master

So god CAN in fact create such a rock? I'm not asking if he would, I'm asking if he could.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
As soon as one removes the divine element, nothing Biblical makes sense, make room for it and everything makes sense.

The Zen master

Yes, so basically tell yourself "god can do it" and all of a sudden it makes sense.

Don't think about it. Just accept it blindly as the truth. How comforting that must be.

Originally posted by Great King Rat
So god CAN in fact create such a rock? I'm not asking if he would, I'm asking if he could.

could? Christians are warned against debating such useless and quite frankly silly questions for they tend to produce nothing but contention.

The Zen master

Originally posted by Great King Rat
Yes, so basically tell yourself "god can do it" and all of a sudden it makes sense.

Don't think about it. Just accept it blindly as the truth. How comforting that must be.

No one is talking of accepting anything blindly, faith is not blind, it is the assured exception of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities not yet beheld. Please note the use of the term evident.

The Zen master

could? Christians are warned against debating such useless and quite frankly silly questions for they tend to produce nothing but contention.

That is a very wise stance, Robbie. Don't think about it too much and don't do what you've been warned against. Wouldn't want to make your own decisions and creep out of your comfort zone now, would you? Before you know it, you'll be thinking about things and maybe you'll even start doubting.

Beware of doubt!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
No one is talking of accepting anything blindly, faith is not blind, it is the assured exception of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities not yet beheld. Please note the use of the term evident.

The Zen master

I note the term but I honestly don't know what you mean by "it is the assured exception of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities not yet beheld."

Would you care to rephrase?

Originally posted by Great King Rat
[b]could? Christians are warned against debating such useless and quite frankly silly questions for they tend to produce nothing but contention.

That is a very wise stance, Robbie. Don't think about it too much and don't do what you've been warned against. Wouldn't want to make your own decisions and creep out of your comfort zone now, would yo ...[text shortened]... w it, you'll be thinking about things and maybe you'll even start doubting.

Beware of doubt![/b]

what is wisdom but the application of knowledge? it has nothing to do with comfort zones, simply knowing that it produces nothing but contention.

Originally posted by Great King Rat
I note the term but I honestly don't know what you mean by "it is the assured exception of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities not yet beheld."

Would you care to rephrase?

yes, faith is based upon evidence, not blind as has been assumed.

Originally posted by Pianoman1
I have not decided that God is not fictional - hence agnosticism.

So, if I decide that God is fictional, then atheism would be perfectly OK? You earlier referred to it as falling into a trap. What trap would this be?

Gandalf, Winnie the Pooh and Frankenstein et al being fictional characters made up by their relative authors.
How do you know this? I believe The Hobbit states that it was written by Bilbo Baggins.
And why do you not believe that the Bible and its characters were not made up by the authors? I am trying to ascertain the difference.

If you want to believe in a rather stupid talking bear, a man made monster and a wizard - that's fine, but, unlike God, there is no school of thought that believes in them.
So a 'school of thought' makes a concept viable? How many adherents are required?
Do you know how many people speak Klingon?
What about Scientology?
What about astrology? Are you agnostic about the possibility that the position of the moon in the sky relative to certain stars when you were born may have affected your character and ideal mate? I think there is a large school of thought with regards to this one.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
As soon as one removes the divine element, nothing Biblical makes sense, make room for it and everything makes sense.

The Zen master

Actually as soon as one admits the possibility of the supernatural - making sense, is no longer a requirement.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
what is wisdom but the application of knowledge? it has nothing to do with comfort zones, simply knowing that it produces nothing but contention.

Wisdom is the application of knowledge?

Originally posted by Great King Rat
Wisdom is the application of knowledge?

Indeed, you heard it here first, to a fit and virtuous purpose I hasten to add, stick around rattus wrexus vulgarus, you will become my greatest disciple, i envision great things for you!

Zen master

Originally posted by twhitehead
Actually as soon as one admits the possibility of the supernatural - making sense, is no longer a requirement.

hardly, in fact some philosophers would hold that without the inclusion of the supernatural a unified view of the universe is not possible.

Zen master

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
hardly, in fact some philosophers would hold that without the inclusion of the supernatural a unified view of the universe is not possible.

Zen master

'The supernatural' is nothing more than a claim that there are no universal rules. Hence, it is not necessary for anything to 'make sense' as in 'follow certain rules'.
Of course most people who invoke the supernatural do so in order to claim that they know the rules and everyone else doesn't - or rather they make up the rules then invoke the supernatural as a socially acceptable way of saying 'I make up the rules and nobody can tell me different'.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Indeed, you heard it here first, to a fit and virtuous purpose I hasten to add, stick around rattus wrexus vulgarus, you will become my greatest disciple, i envision great things for you!

Zen master

Hitler knew very well how to eradicate jews.

Was that therefore wisdom?