An Alternative to Manmade Elixirs

Originally posted by twhitehead
You may do that, but the vast majority of people do not. Instead we make a judgment about what we hear as to whether it is true or not based on a large number of factors.

[b]Is it true that Jesus died on a cross, was buried and rose from the dead? Yes, it is true, whether one believes it or not.
No, its not true, whether one believes it or not 🙂 ...[text shortened]... use I say its true! And look, the Bible says it too!'.
Sorry, but I don't find that convincing.[/b]

The image and blood stains on the Shroud of Turin should be ample physical proof that Jesus died on the cross for everyone but idiots.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
An "open mind" perspective continues to this day. Why? Why not?

CJ, I have no illusions of having arrived; I'm still learning with an open mind each day as well as unlearning in the process.

Thanks for this answer, but please allow me to probe a little further.

The challenges to consider the FSM or the pink unicorn in twhitehead's fridge are designed to be insulting and provocative. Ignore them.

My challenge would be more specific. Take another beautiful human being, created in God's image but across the fence from you, in another camp. Somebody who went through ALL the soul-searching that you went through. Somebody who exemplifies Christ's teachings about loving your fellow-man, etc. somebody who has just as many "Shrouds of Turin" as RJH to prove his faith, and more so.

Would you be prepared to listen to such a story with an open mind, with the willingness to consider that maybe, just maybe, there is a valid spiritual experience hidden here which may be different from yours, maybe EVEN MORE VALID than yours?

Are you still open to learn, and to ask Why, Why not, in such a case?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Will you consider the offer made by the invisible pink unicorn that lives in my fridge? It is offering you the chance to release yourself from the bonds of your religion.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Will you consider the offer made by the invisible pink unicorn that lives in my fridge? It is offering you the chance to release yourself from the bonds of your religion.

If trapped in the 'bonds of religion', I'd reply: "Sure"; however, Christianity is a relationship which religion counterfeits.

Originally posted by Suzianne
But it is perfectly okay for you to insult the belief system of many here by equating the God of Abraham to an invisible pink unicorn. This is the same error the people who trot out the FSM make.

In what way do you find that insulting? Do you understand what I am saying and why?

Most do not have to insult those who do believe in God by bringing out ridiculous false 'gods'.
So you clearly don't believe in my invisible pink unicorn. Is that a good reason to call it a 'ridiculous false god'? It seems to me the one doing the insulting is you.

When you have calmed down a bit, reread my posts and think about what I have said.

Originally posted by RJHinds
The image and blood stains on the Shroud of Turin should be ample physical proof that Jesus died on the cross for everyone but idiots.

So you think that just about everyone else in the world (who doesn't believe as you do) are idiots?

Originally posted by CalJust
The challenges to consider the FSM or the pink unicorn in twhitehead's fridge are designed to be insulting and provocative.

No, they are most definitely not designed to be insulting in any way.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
If trapped in the 'bonds of religion', I'd reply: "Sure"; however, Christianity is a relationship which religion counterfeits.

So essentially you do not have an open mind, as you chose not to believe me before even considering the proposition.

On top of that, I am skeptical of your response. If you truly believed you were trapped in the bonds of religion, would you have accepted the offer from my invisible pink unicorn? I don't think so. If you really would have replied 'sure', then your mind is so open that your brains have fallen out.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
If trapped in the 'bonds of religion', I'd reply: "Sure"; however, Christianity is a relationship which religion counterfeits.

My Muslim neighbours see themselves as having a direct relationship with God. You see yourself as having a direct relationship with God. This is why the Islam professed by my neighbours and the Christianity you profess are both religions. You are not the first Christian who has tried to add extra mystique to your beliefs by denying that they constitute a religion.

Originally posted by CalJust
Thanks for this answer, but please allow me to probe a little further.

The challenges to consider the FSM or the pink unicorn in twhitehead's fridge are designed to be insulting and provocative. Ignore them.

My challenge would be more specific. Take another beautiful human being, created in God's image but across the fence from you, in another camp. So ...[text shortened]... MORE VALID than yours?

Are you still open to learn, and to ask Why, Why not, in such a case?

Biblical truth and its applications I'll gladly listen to from any believer in Christ irrespective of their outward appearance. Please clarify "in another camp". Believers have no need to prove their personal relationship with God to anyone.

Originally posted by twhitehead
So essentially you do not have an open mind, as you chose not to believe me before even considering the proposition.

On top of that, I am skeptical of your response. If you truly believed you were trapped in the bonds of religion, would you have accepted the offer from my invisible pink unicorn? I don't think so. If you really would have replied 'sure', then your mind is so open that your brains have fallen out.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Will you consider the offer made by the invisible pink unicorn that lives in my fridge? It is offering you the chance to release yourself from the bonds of your religion.

"considering the proposition" is premised on the need " to release yourself from the bonds of your religion": non-applicable.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Please clarify "in another camp". Believers have no need to prove their personal relationship with God to anyone.

Do Muslims, for example ~ they'd be "in another camp", right? ~ have no need to "prove their personal relationship with God" to you?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"considering the proposition" is premised on the need " to release yourself from the bonds of your religion": non-applicable.

You said: "Nothing is required of you except an open mind. There are no religious gimmicks." You simply declaring a call to be open minded yourself as being "non-applicable" is nothing if not a "religious gimmick" in this context, surely?

Originally posted by twhitehead
No, they are most definitely not designed to be insulting in any way.

I will explain why it does come across as insulting, even if (as you claim) it is not designed in being so.

A very large proportion of humankind believe in some kind of deity. I would venture to suggest that you are the only one who believes in your little pet unicorn, even with tongue planted firmly in cheek.

So to claim that they MAY be equal beliefs, is insulting.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Biblical truth and its applications I'll gladly listen to from any believer in Christ irrespective of their outward appearance. Please clarify "in another camp". Believers have no need to prove their personal relationship with God to anyone.

If I could persuade you to "Open up your Mind" (as you claim you are able to do), to REALLY see the other side, then I would also be able to solve the problem of the Middle East and deservedly claim the Nobel Peace Prize....

:'(

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"considering the proposition" is premised on the need " to release yourself from the bonds of your religion": non-applicable.

You only believe it is non-applicable, because you are not open minded enough to consider the possibility that you are bound by your religion. You have chosen not to believe the premise without even considering it.