1. Colorado
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    14 Jan '06 01:371 edit
    The scientists and skeptics on this site have tried to use science to show that there is no God, but can science actually show that there is a God?

    1. Can science show that there was a so called beginning?

    Most of us are willing to accept that we exist, but the question is were we deliberately created, or are we a chance accident? Atheists are generally of the opinion that the biblical account of our creation is false because matter has always existed in the form of matter or energy.

    Science tells us that the universe is expanding. The stars and galaxies are moving away from each other. If we were to reverse this process the cosmos would converge at a point. This point is referred to as a singularity. According to science this would be the beginning.

    The energy that fuels the universe is another argument for a beginning. Stars such as our sun produce energy through a process called thermonuclear fusion whereby hydrogen is converted to helium. All stars are fueled this way, so it’s logical to assume that there was a beginning. The amount of hydrogen in the universe is finite. If everywhere in the universe hydrogen has been converted to helium for all eternity, there wouldn’t be any hydrogen left.

    A third scientific argument for a beginning is seen in the second law of thermodynamics which states that in any closed system, things tend to become disordered. In short, things get old. A vehicle requires regular maintenance to keep running, and this principle is carried over to the cosmos. The aging process of the cosmos is referred to by astronomers as “heat death.” A universe that cycles through expanding and collapsing would not exist forever because it would loose heat and light through every cycle. According to Dr. Carl Sagan “If the cosmos is everything that ever was or is or ever will be nothing could be added to it to improve its order or repair it.”

    There is far more scientific evidence that there was a beginning as the book of Genesis states.

    2. Can science show that there was a deliberate cause to creation?

    Typically the atheists claim that “matter is not created, but it is self-existing.” For this statement to be true, it is necessary for matter to have been generated out of nothing. If we assume that matter had a beginning and that it wasn’t deliberately created by a supreme intelligence, it would have had to appear out of nothing and by accident. This flies in the face of everything we know about science thus far.

    3. If creation had a beginning, the question is what caused it?

    The scripture tells us of coarse that God made creation. Romans 1:20 tells us that we can know God through the things that he made, so God must also have made science. It is therefore logical to assume that one day science and religion will merge and support each other.

    What does science tell us thus far about an intelligent creator? The still controversial “anthropic principle” attempts to scientifically explain that the universe must have been designed. Basically, the anthropic principle says that random chance is not adequate to explain life. There is lots and lots of material on this topic and it is still being debated. Here is a link that gives a very general outline of it.

    http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rossuk/c-anthro.htm

    In conclusion, we can say that science supports the theory that matter is not eternal, and that the universe is not self-existing but in fact has a cause. Unless we are to believe that something can emerge out of nothing, we can also say that science supports the theory of an intelligent creator. The anthropic principle is one of the ways that science has tried to justify this.
  2. Standard memberfrogstomp
    Bruno's Ghost
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    14 Jan '06 01:40
    Originally posted by The Chess Express
    The scientists and skeptics on this site have tried to use science to show that there is no God, but can science actually show that there is a God?

    1. Can science show that there was a so called beginning?

    Most of us are willing to accept that we exist, but the question is were we deliberately created, or are we a chance accident? Atheists ar ...[text shortened]... gent creator. The anthropic principle is one of the ways that science has tried to justify this.
    1) no
    2) no
    3) see answer #1
  3. Colorado
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    14 Jan '06 01:42
    Originally posted by frogstomp
    1) no
    2) no
    3) see answer #1
    Typical atheist. Thanks for the info.
  4. Account suspended
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    14 Jan '06 01:44
    I can show that if god does exist then he is deinitely not a loving one. See ...

    www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=35999
  5. Standard memberfrogstomp
    Bruno's Ghost
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    14 Jan '06 01:45
    Originally posted by The Chess Express
    Typical atheist. Thanks for the info.
    Typical non-sciencist. You're welcome
  6. Account suspended
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    14 Jan '06 01:49
    I can show you that if god was to exist then he wouldn't be a loving one. See:

    www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=35999
  7. Standard memberscottishinnz
    Kichigai!
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    14 Jan '06 01:50
    Originally posted by The Chess Express
    The scientists and skeptics on this site have tried to use science to show that there is no God, but can science actually show that there is a God?

    1. Can science show that there was a so called beginning?

    Most of us are willing to accept that we exist, but the question is were we deliberately created, or are we a chance accident? Atheists ar ...[text shortened]... gent creator. The anthropic principle is one of the ways that science has tried to justify this.
    The anthropic principle has been debunked on many occassions. I'll do it again if you'd like?

    Basically, the universe is the way it is, that's all you can state from the state of the universe. To then claim that that proves god is streching the data too far. It is a conclusion that does not follow from the data.
  8. Colorado
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    14 Jan '06 01:50
    Originally posted by STANG
    I can show that if god does exist then he is deinitely not a loving one. See ...

    www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=35999
    I can show that if God does exist, he definitely is a loving God. See...

    http://www.angels-online.com/index.html
  9. Standard memberColetti
    W.P. Extraordinaire
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    14 Jan '06 01:53
    Originally posted by STANG
    I can show that if god does exist then he is deinitely not a loving one. See ...

    www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=35999
    It may be the case that God does not love STANG.
  10. Not Kansas
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    14 Jan '06 01:541 edit
    Science seems to say that God is not needed after one Planck time post Big Bang. "Before" then is undefined.
    Sorry it worked out that way, a lot of trees died for nothing printing holybooks.

    Well, OK, the trees didn't do the printing ...
  11. Standard memberfrogstomp
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    14 Jan '06 01:58
    Originally posted by The Chess Express
    I can show that if God does exist, he definitely is a loving God. See...

    http://www.angels-online.com/index.html
    here's the final site this thread needs

    http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=36587&page=fini
  12. Colorado
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    14 Jan '06 02:00
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    The anthropic principle has been debunked on many occassions. I'll do it again if you'd like?

    Basically, the universe is the way it is, that's all you can state from the state of the universe. To then claim that that proves god is streching the data too far. It is a conclusion that does not follow from the data.
    The anthropic principle has been debunked on many occassions. I'll do it again if you'd like?

    The anthropic principle simply tries to scientifically explain the points that I brought up. The critics say that it’s false, the proponents say that it’s true. Both sides have notable scientists. Assuming that it is false, science still has to explain the other points in my post.

    Basically, the universe is the way it is, that's all you can state from the state of the universe. To then claim that that proves god is streching the data too far. It is a conclusion that does not follow from the data.

    To say that the universe is the way that it is because it’s there and it’s like that is a bit of a cop out. Some scientists try to search for a better answer.
  13. Colorado
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    14 Jan '06 02:02
    Originally posted by Coletti
    It may be the case that God does not love STANG.
    I think it is more likely that Stang does not love God.
  14. Standard memberNemesio
    Ursulakantor
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    14 Jan '06 02:05
    Originally posted by The Chess Express
    1. Can science show that there was a so called beginning?
    2. Can science show that there was a deliberate cause to creation?
    3. If creation had a beginning, the question is what caused it?
    Science only asserts that there was a beginning of this universe;
    whether there was a universe preceding this one that collapsed and
    then reexpanded is a matter of conjecture. It is possible that the
    universe has always existed.

    If you ask, 'How did the universe always exist? What brought matter
    into being?,' one could easily turn around and say, 'How did God
    always exist? What brought God into being?'

    Any answer you provide can be equally applied to the universe.

    Nemesio
  15. Account suspended
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    14 Jan '06 02:08
    Originally posted by The Chess Express
    I think it is more likely that Stang does not love God.
    What, love someone who, if they did exist, created a worm that can burrow through a child's head and send them blind ?!!
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