An argument for the existence of God

Originally posted by Coletti
Falsification is the heart of the scientific method.

You trot this out every so often like dogma. Does this dogma have a history?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
You trot this out every so often like dogma. Does this dogma have a history?

He means the act of trying to prove something false is at the heart of the
scientific method.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
You trot this out every so often like dogma. Does this dogma have a history?

Yes, in Sir Karl Popper (1902 - 1994).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Popper

Originally posted by Coletti
Yes, in Sir Karl Popper (1902 - 1994).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Popper

Unintentionally, you were confusing when you said 'falsification.' It made it sound like
you were saying that presenting false data was at the heart of the scientific method.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
Unintentionally, you were confusing when you said 'falsification.' It made it sound like
you were saying that presenting false data was at the heart of the scientific method.

Nemesio

Yes. I should have said "falsifiability".

Originally posted by Coletti
You mean has not been disproven. If it can not be disproven, it's not very useful as science. Falsification is the heart of the scientific method.

Yes, quite right. My bad. Falsifiability is what it's all about...

Here are some of the things that an average scientist might say.

1. You cannot prove the existance of god, and without that, the hypothesis that you present that god has or can transcend physical laws is moot. A scientist would never even come up with such a hypothesis as god without proof that the laws of physics had been transcended.

2. A scientist can be a scientist in spite of their religion, but not because of their religion. God is a belief (a viewpoint held in the absence of proof) - science doesn't work that way. Science works on facts, not beliefs.

3. I come to the debate able to present facts, figures and ideas. It is this that stops the debate simply being two people standing there going - 'my idea is better than yours'. You need facts - they are the ammunition with which we execute our protagonists.

4. The universe is everything that does or has ever existed.

5. And (God) apparently sends millions to hell every day who do not believe in him.

6. What a load of tosh. Humans ARE just horrendiously complex chemical reaction. Believe noone that tells you otherwise.

Here are some things that a great scientist says.

1. "As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
Albert Einstein

“Imagination is more important than knowledge.”
Albert Einstein

"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts."
Albert Einstein

2. "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Albert Einstein.

"It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure."
Albert Einstein

3. "If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
Albert Einstein

"When I examine myself and my methods of thought, I come to the conclusion that the gift of fantasy has meant more to me than any talent for abstract, positive thinking."
Albert Einstein

"The search for truth is more precious than its possession."
Albert Einstein

4. "Parallel universes may exist."
Albert Einstein

5. "God may be subtle, but He isn't plain mean."
Albert Einstein

6. "God doesn't play dice."
Albert Einstein

Originally posted by The Chess Express
Here are some of the things that an average scientist might say.

[b]1. You cannot prove the existance of god, and without that, the hypothesis that you present that god has or can transcend physical laws is moot. A scientist would never even come up with such a hypothesis as god without proof that the laws of physics had been transcended.
Albert Einstein

6. "God doesn't play dice."
Albert Einstein[/b]

Thanks for the comparison with Einstein, I am truly flattered. I do not profess to be 'great', quite whatever that is. I only profess to be competent.

Einstein was a religious man. But his knowledge and greatness as a scientist does not mean his religious beliefs were correct. Newton, perhaps the 'greatest' scientist ever was also an alchemist, and would have believed in the philosophers stone, and the fountain of youth (a la ponce de leon). So what? As Alexander Pope said 'to err is human'.

Einstein's belief in god was just that - a belief.

[edit; btw, how do you know that in 150 years they will not compare me with Newton, Hooke, Darwin, Einstein or Hawkins? I do not know. I suspect they will not - of all the scientists that have ever been most do not get that recognition, but some do.] [edit 2; I just learned about Karl Popper, whom I'd heard about, and probably studied at some point, but didn't remember. You know, he didn't start his PhD until he was two years older than me when I finished mine.]

Originally posted by The Chess Express
Here are some of the things that an average scientist might say.

[b]1. You cannot prove the existance of god, and without that, the hypothesis that you present that god has or can transcend physical laws is moot. A scientist would never even come up with such a hypothesis as god without proof that the laws of physics had been transcended.
...[text shortened]... Albert Einstein

6. "God doesn't play dice."
Albert Einstein[/b]

"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts."
Albert Einstein

Er.. no. It should be -- "If the facts don't fit the theory -- change the theory."

Originally posted by The Chess Express
Here are some of the things that an average scientist might say.

[b]1. You cannot prove the existance of god, and without that, the hypothesis that you present that god has or can transcend physical laws is moot. A scientist would never even come up with such a hypothesis as god without proof that the laws of physics had been transcended.
...[text shortened]... Albert Einstein

6. "God doesn't play dice."
Albert Einstein[/b]

btw you seem, as many creationists do to disagree with Einstein's quote #2. You do not accept what science tells you, when it contradicts the bible. Oh, the irony!

Originally posted by Halitose
[b]"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts."
Albert Einstein

Er.. no. It should be -- "If the facts don't fit the theory -- change the theory."[/b]

Never thought I'd do this Hal, but one rec to you!!!

Originally posted by Halitose
[b]"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts."
Albert Einstein

Er.. no. It should be -- "If the facts don't fit the theory -- change the theory."[/b]

Einstein was joking. The quote is correct.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Never thought I'd do this Hal, but one rec to you!!!

Why, thanks scott.

Originally posted by Coletti
Einstein was joking. The quote is correct.

Irrespective, he can be right. When the facts are wrong.

Originally posted by Coletti
Einstein was joking. The quote is correct.

Yes. I think it was just a little out of place amongst the quotations.