Originally posted by twhitehead'Always' in this context, means 'all time prior to now'. There is no requirement for it to be infinite.
'Always' in this context, means 'all time prior to now'. There is no requirement for it to be infinite.
[b]I'm sure you've heard many a coherent explanation of exactly what that entails.
Of course not, but most of them recognise that such a concept is difficult to conceptualize, and it is one of the few cases where some theists admit ignorance rat ...[text shortened]... us.
3. All interactions with the universe must be 'done at once' from his perspective.[/b]
While that may be how you conceive it, I introduced the phrase "always existed" to our discussion with the meaning of the commonly accepted definition in mind. As such, that's what prevails. I assume you understand my intended meaning. If you don't like the phrase 'always existed', then feel free to replace it with a phrase you feel more comfortable with. I recently read a little article by Stephen Hawking and he used the phrase "existed forever". Perhaps that will work better for you.
Of course not, but most of them recognise that such a concept is difficult to conceptualize, and it is one of the few cases where some theists admit ignorance rather than trying to elaborate and I can't really fault them.
Well, if they can't explain what it is, then it's just a vacuous concept introduced to deflect from the fact that their larger belief is incoherent.
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Originally posted by ThinkOfOneIn eternity past as well as eternity future there is existence without time. God created time for mankind as a frame of reference for our lives. Without time it becomes easier to understand infinity. With time there is past, present and future, without time there is only the present. Time is a boundary for mankind. God does not have any boundaries and neither will we in eternity.
[b]'Always' in this context, means 'all time prior to now'. There is no requirement for it to be infinite.
While that may be how you conceive it, I introduced the phrase "always existed" to our discussion with the meaning of the commonly accepted definition in mind. As such, that's what prevails. I assume you understand my intended meaning. If you ncept introduced to deflect from the fact that their larger belief is incoherent.[/b]
Originally posted by kiki46Is there change?
In eternity past as well as eternity future there is existence without time. God created time for mankind as a frame of reference for our lives. Without time it becomes easier to understand infinity. With time there is past, present and future, without time there is only the present.
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneThis convo between you and twhitehead resembles nothing more than two atheists running in circles chasing each others' tails.
Well, if they can't explain what it is, then it's just a vacuous concept introduced to deflect from the fact that their larger belief is incoherent.
It's humorous for a while but gets boring fast. Even with popcorn.
Originally posted by kiki46I think that's right. A state of perfect celestial bliss would not be one that changes. In a way, it's like actually reaching infinity, which is of course incomprehensible in worldly terms.
It will not be static but a perfect existence with happiness that we can only imagine. Even our imagination can't perceive the blessings God has in store for His own.
Originally posted by kiki46You probably should have addressed this to TW. Though, I have to say that what you've provided here seems to lack sufficient detail as to what your concept actually entails to be meaningful.
In eternity past as well as eternity future there is existence without time. God created time for mankind as a frame of reference for our lives. Without time it becomes easier to understand infinity. With time there is past, present and future, without time there is only the present. Time is a boundary for mankind. God does not have any boundaries and neither will we in eternity.
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Originally posted by SuzianneAre you of the belief that the reason for our conversation is to sufficiently entertain you? If you have anything substantial to add to the discussion, feel free.
This convo between you and twhitehead resembles nothing more than two atheists running in circles chasing each others' tails.
It's humorous for a while but gets boring fast. Even with popcorn.
Originally posted by kiki46You must have a strange notion of 'time'. Seems to me that your view is incoherent. After all, if you claim God exists outside of temporal relations, then you run into a problem of action: the problem being, that such a God cannot be causally active and hence cannot be causally efficacious. After all, actions are events; and events occur in time, are subject to temporal relations.
In eternity past as well as eternity future there is existence without time. God created time for mankind as a frame of reference for our lives. Without time it becomes easier to understand infinity. With time there is past, present and future, without time there is only the present. Time is a boundary for mankind. God does not have any boundaries and neither will we in eternity.
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Originally posted by SuzianneYou don't have to read their conversation Suzianne. What do you want them to do exactly, make it more interesting so you can be engaged? Seems a trifle self-centered do you not think?
This convo between you and twhitehead resembles nothing more than two atheists running in circles chasing each others' tails.
It's humorous for a while but gets boring fast. Even with popcorn.
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneSpecific details are not given to us. This is just a qualified assumption based on Scripture. We will only know as God knows when we get to heaven. We only have limited qualifications to understand the infinite omniscience of God. If we believe in Christ one day we will.
You probably should have addressed this to TW. Though, I have to say that what you've provided here seems to lack sufficient detail as to what your concept actually entails to be meaningful.
Originally posted by LemonJelloGod created time but is not subject to time. But God has taken the "time" in His grace to be involved in the affairs of mankind solely for our benefit. The cross is a perfect example. The efficacious work was done for us there.
You must have a strange notion of 'time'. Seems to me that your view is incoherent. After all, if you claim God exists outside of temporal relations, then you run into a problem of action: the problem being, that such a God cannot be causally active and hence cannot be causally efficacious. After all, actions are events; and events occur in time, are subject to temporal relations.
Originally posted by kiki46
God created time but is not subject to time. But God has taken the "time" in His grace to be involved in the affairs of mankind solely for our benefit. The cross is a perfect example. The efficacious work was done for us there.
God created time but is not subject to time.
How exactly did God create anything if He is not subject to time?
Acts of creation are events; and events are subject to temporal relations; ergo....
Originally posted by Proper KnobWhat I'm saying is there's nothing here with any real substance, it's all conjecture, and yet theists are the ones who are castigated for believing in the tooth fairy.
You don't have to read their conversation Suzianne. What do you want them to do exactly, make it more interesting so you can be engaged? Seems a trifle self-centered do you not think?
I dunno, maybe some fisticuffs might be entertaining. 😉
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneWhy not? twhitehead has already admitted once that he often posts here only to start stuff with Christians for entertainment.
Are you of the belief that the reason for our conversation is to sufficiently entertain you? If you have anything substantial to add to the discussion, feel free.
Are you gonna eat ALL that popcorn?