1. Standard memberDarfius
    The Apologist
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    31 Mar '05 06:481 edit
    Do they exist?
  2. NY
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    31 Mar '05 07:01
    ? eh?
  3. Standard memberDarfius
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    31 Mar '05 07:02
    Originally posted by xxxenophobe
    ? eh?
    Why do humans alone have the emotions pride, shame and guilt? No other animal has these emotions, including apes, our "cousins".
  4. NY
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    31 Mar '05 07:04
    why not... could be an evolutionarry trate wer "testing out" because of it we could extincitfy ourselves.... due to those sam emotions i am asuming are the major cause of war and hostilities twards other mankind...
  5. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    31 Mar '05 11:07
    Originally posted by Darfius
    Why do humans alone have the emotions pride, shame and guilt? No other animal has these emotions, including apes, our "cousins".
    How do you know what emotions they have or don't have? I postulate that they do indeed have these emotions, or at least similar ones, possibly simpler ones.
  6. NY
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    31 Mar '05 11:17
    i think emotions are going to be humanities downfall.. it causes joy and good things yes.. but emotions are also the cause of death and destructive behavior as well...
  7. Standard memberAynat
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    31 Mar '05 20:24
    Originally posted by Darfius
    Why do humans alone have the emotions pride, shame and guilt? No other animal has these emotions, including apes, our "cousins".
    Have you never had a pet? Have you never obsevered any animals?

    My dog has exhibited pride....when she has just taken a ball away from me an prances around me showing off her prize.

    She has displayed guilt...when she has just thrown up on the carpet and stands over it with her ears back, head hung down.

    Have you never heard of a gorilla called KoKo and her kitten, All Ball?

  8. Standard memberDarfius
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    31 Mar '05 20:26
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    How do you know what emotions they have or don't have? I postulate that they do indeed have these emotions, or at least similar ones, possibly simpler ones.
    Never been observed. Burden of proof is on you.
  9. Standard memberDarfius
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    31 Mar '05 20:29
    Have you never had a pet? Have you never obsevered any animals?

    Of course and of course.

    My dog has exhibited pride....when she has just taken a ball away from me an prances around me showing off her prize.

    No, your dog exhibited the urge to play more, which is instinctual and serves to keep them fit and gets rid of excess aggression.

    She has displayed guilt...when she has just thrown up on the carpet and stands over it with her ears back, head hung down.

    I find it difficult to believe that the very first time she vomited on your carpet, that she "had her ears back and head hung low". Your negative reinforcement has her prepared to endure some sort of abuse, and she attempts to avoid this by submitting to you, just as in the wild.

    Have you never heard of a gorilla called KoKo and her kitten, All Ball?

    I've heard of KoKo the "signing" guerilla, but I don't know about her kitten. Elaborate, please.
  10. Standard memberAynat
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    31 Mar '05 21:12
    KoKo had a kitten which she loved. There is a book and probably kajillions of articles about them. Koko grieved when her kitten was killed by a car.

  11. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    31 Mar '05 23:161 edit
    Originally posted by Darfius
    Never been observed. Burden of proof is on you.
    How does one observe these things? Please tell me what a prideful or shameful dog would be like if you don't think Aynat's examples are accurate?

    You're the one making a definite claim. You are certain, I am not. Burden of proof is on you to prove your claim. Your argument is pretty funny:

    Darfius: A is definely, absolutely not true.
    ATY: Well maybe A is true. I'll postulate that it's true.
    Darfius: Burden of proof is on you to prove me wrong for daring to say you don't know!

    As far as negative reinforcement and shame go, humans get trained via such things as negative reinforcement as well. Some Jews would likely feel terrible guilt about eating pork, and Catholic guilt is well known. These things come about due to the person's upbringing. Reinforcement techniques are standard methods used in the raising of a child.

    What exactly defines pride, shame and guilt such that you absolutely know only humans experience them?
  12. Standard memberDarfius
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    01 Apr '05 03:212 edits
    How does one observe these things? Please tell me what a prideful or shameful dog would be like if you don't think Aynat's examples are accurate?

    "A sense of one's own proper dignity or value; self-respect."

    Do you honestly think dogs have a sense of of their own proper dignity? Or self-respect?

    You're the one making a definite claim. You are certain, I am not. Burden of proof is on you to prove your claim. Your argument is pretty funny:

    Darfius: A is definely, absolutely not true.
    ATY: Well maybe A is true. I'll postulate that it's true.
    Darfius: Burden of proof is on you to prove me wrong for daring to say you don't know!


    It is common knowledge that animals have never been observed to display these emotions.

    As far as negative reinforcement and shame go, humans get trained via such things as negative reinforcement as well. Some Jews would likely feel terrible guilt about eating pork, and Catholic guilt is well known. These things come about due to the person's upbringing. Reinforcement techniques are standard methods used in the raising of a child.

    Of course, but you can't teach someone to feel guilty, or proud, or ashamed. If you run a red light, do you feel guilty? Even if you've never gotten a ticket?

    If you complete a project, you feel proud. This can't be helped. And it definitely can't be taught.

    If you trip and fall, you feel ashamed. No animal would care.

    What exactly defines pride, shame and guilt such that you absolutely know only humans experience them?

    I would use the definitions, and it becomes obvious that animals cannot and do not express these emotions.
  13. Donationkirksey957
    Outkast
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    01 Apr '05 03:33
    Originally posted by Darfius
    Why do humans alone have the emotions pride, shame and guilt? No other animal has these emotions, including apes, our "cousins".
    I recommend that you read "Animals in Translation" by Temple Grandin.
  14. Not Kansas
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    01 Apr '05 05:58
    Originally posted by Darfius
    Why do humans alone have the emotions pride, shame and guilt? No other animal has these emotions, including apes, our "cousins".
    Prove it.
  15. Standard memberAynat
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    01 Apr '05 07:092 edits
    OOPS!


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