1. Joined
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    03 Jul '12 12:17
    why did god give animals such short lives?
    why did god make homosexual animals if he dislikes it so much?
    did god make beef tasty before humans could eat it or did it become tasty later?
    why did god not give animals souls?
    were adam and eve vegetarians or vegans?
  2. Account suspended
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    03 Jul '12 12:293 edits
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    why did god give animals such short lives?
    why did god make homosexual animals if he dislikes it so much?
    did god make beef tasty before humans could eat it or did it become tasty later?
    why did god not give animals souls?
    were adam and eve vegetarians or vegans?
    1. God never intended that we or animals have such short lifes, he intended that we
    live forever in a perfect earthly paradise, in harmony with the animals.

    2. The idea that animals are homosexual is absurd, they do not reason and cannot
    ever be considered as engaging in consensual same sex. I have seen dogs trying
    to mate with the edge of a couch, does that mean they are predisposed towards
    couches, no, well, lets not be absurd, equating animal behaviour with human is a
    tool of the materialist and is equally as short-sighted, for there are many sexual
    practices which animals engage in which have disastrous effects for humans.

    3. beef isn't tasty at all, in fact, it relies upon condiments to make it tasty, in my
    opinion.

    4. animals are described in the Bible as being souls, its quite erroneous and perhaps
    a reflection of the lack of knowledge of the worlds most widely translated, widely
    distributed and widely available book, that people still have such misconceptions of it.

    5. Adam and Eve were originally vegetarians.
  3. Subscribersonhouse
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    03 Jul '12 12:59
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    1. God never intended that we or animals have such short lifes, he intended that we
    live forever in a perfect earthly paradise, in harmony with the animals.

    2. The idea that animals are homosexual is absurd, they do not reason and cannot
    ever be considered as engaging in consensual same sex. I have seen dogs trying
    to mate with the edge of ...[text shortened]... t people still have such misconceptions of it.

    5. Adam and Eve were originally vegetarians.
    So as to # 1, your god would have had people be immortal and therefore unable to reproduce? Think about what you just said. If people were in fact immortal AND had reproductive capability, the planet would soon have TRILLIONS of people on it. Death is what lets us have a more or less stable population.

    #2, don't know what else you would call it when 2 same sex animals co-habitates as what happens to some penguins and other animals.

    #3, If you were a caveman 20,000 years ago, I can assure you cooked beef on a fire would be a lot more tasty than raw beef on the hoof.

    #4, You seem to contradict yourself, don't know what you are saying.

    #5, How can you say for certain whether or not Adam and Eve ate meat? Even assuming there was such a couple which never happened but even giving you Adam and Eve why couldn't they eat meat?
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    03 Jul '12 13:101 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    So as to # 1, your god would have had people be immortal and therefore unable to reproduce? Think about what you just said. If people were in fact immortal AND had reproductive capability, the planet would soon have TRILLIONS of people on it. Death is what lets us have a more or less stable population.

    #2, don't know what else you would call it when 2 sa ch a couple which never happened but even giving you Adam and Eve why couldn't they eat meat?
    1. you are confusing immortality with everlasting life, they are not one and the same
    although i dont expect you to know the difference, unless you have researched it.
    Its another common misconception to make the two synonymous.

    2. i have explained why its absurd.

    3. i dont think its tasty even cooked in regge regge barbecue sauce, cavemen are a
    fictional absurdity of scientific dogma masquerading as empirical science.

    4. i am perfectly aware of what i am saying, please dont project your ignorance on
    to me, you have really no idea what the Bible states, having never studied it, its
    simply a reflection of the hypocrisy of most ardent critics of scripture and nothing
    new.

    5. because the mandate was given by God, in the Bible that they eat fruit and
    vegetables, there is no record, that they ever transgressed this and you have
    nothing but a speculative nothingness with which to attempt to refute it.
  5. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    03 Jul '12 13:591 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    1. God never intended that we or animals have such short lifes, he intended that we
    live forever in a perfect earthly paradise, in harmony with the animals.

    2. The idea that animals are homosexual is absurd, they do not reason and cannot
    ever be considered as engaging in consensual same sex. I have seen dogs trying
    to mate with the edge of t people still have such misconceptions of it.

    5. Adam and Eve were originally vegetarians.
    The idea that animals do not reason is absurd. There are experiments that show otherwise.

    http://news.discovery.com/videos/animals-elephants-show-cooperation-on-test.html
  6. SubscriberFMF
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    03 Jul '12 14:01
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    2. The idea that animals are homosexual is absurd, they do not reason and cannot ever be considered as engaging in consensual same sex.
    If what you are implying here is that you are against non-consensual homosexual sex, then this is something we can agree on.
  7. Joined
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    03 Jul '12 14:12
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    1. God never intended that we or animals have such short lifes, he intended that we
    live forever in a perfect earthly paradise, in harmony with the animals.

    2. The idea that animals are homosexual is absurd, they do not reason and cannot
    ever be considered as engaging in consensual same sex. I have seen dogs trying
    to mate with the edge of ...[text shortened]... t people still have such misconceptions of it.

    5. Adam and Eve were originally vegetarians.
    1 - this does not answer the question, if god did not intend animals to have short lives, then why do they have short lives?

    2 - many animals consent to same sex sexual acts, bonobos being one example. if to your mind same sex saxual acts between animals is not the same as humans doing it, what would you say makes if different?

    3 - beef may not be tasty to you, i dont like chocolate, but we can both accept that they taste good to most of humanity. so why did god make meat taste good to humans and did he do it before or after original sin?

    4 - if animals do have souls, will they also be judged by god? also, what does god classify as an animal? do microscopic simple celled organisms qualify as animals?

    5 - if they were vegetarians who educated them about the correct diet they would need to eat to make sure they got the correct vitamins?
  8. Joined
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    03 Jul '12 14:151 edit
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    why did god give animals such short lives?
    why did god make homosexual animals if he dislikes it so much?
    did god make beef tasty before humans could eat it or did it become tasty later?
    why did god not give animals souls?
    were adam and eve vegetarians or vegans?
    why did god give animals such short lives?


    Define "short".


    why did god make homosexual animals if he dislikes it so much?


    I don't know hardly anything about "homosexual animals". I may have seen some science discussion to the effect that certain animal behaviors were reminiscient of human homosexual actions.

    Of course God ordained one man for one woman as marriage for human beings (Genesis 2:22-24). If we examine some lives of animals they behave now we can see plenty that are not monogamous in thier sex partnership. Not all designed animal behavrior should be used as a model for humans.

    Since the fall of man the creation was effected. Maybe the cannabalism practiced by some animals against their young is by-product of the fall. Maybe some sexual habits of the animal creation are also results of the fall of man.

    In our eagerness to justify some human socialogical trend, we should be careful we are not misintepreting animal behavior that actually may have some other purpose then we assume.


    did god make beef tasty before humans could eat it or did it become tasty later?


    Before anyone tasted it is is hard to know if it was "tasty" or not.


    why did god not give animals souls?


    You can see by the way a chicken jerks rhythmically its head when it walks, that this goes very well with funky music. So some of the animals had to have some soul.


    were adam and eve vegetarians or vegans?


    They were conservatives.
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    03 Jul '12 14:532 edits
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    The idea that animals do not reason is absurd. There are experiments that show otherwise.

    http://news.discovery.com/videos/animals-elephants-show-cooperation-on-test.html
    then perhaps you might like to ask some of them to post their reasons in the forum,
    learned behaviour is not the same as abstract thought, putting stones into water so as
    to get bread, or using bread to catch fish is not the same as reasoning. Sorry, its
    absurd to state that it is. Penguins also cooperate, as do ants, Bible makes it clear that
    its instinctive, not reasoned behaviour.
  10. Account suspended
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    03 Jul '12 15:0412 edits
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    1 - this does not answer the question, if god did not intend animals to have short lives, then why do they have short lives?

    2 - many animals consent to same sex sexual acts, bonobos being one example. if to your mind same sex saxual acts between animals is not the same as humans doing it, what would you say makes if different?

    3 - beef may not be ...[text shortened]... d them about the correct diet they would need to eat to make sure they got the correct vitamins?
    1.It appears to me not only to answer it but as to give a reason why, we are no
    longer living in a physical paradise.

    2. absolute nonsense, there is no evidence that animals commit consensual sex and
    as i have demonstrated its utter folly to attempt to make animal and human sexual
    behaviour synonymous, citing examples of cohabitation is equally absurd, are my
    tropical fish all homos because they share the same aquarium, no? what about my
    rabbits, no, well, your clutching at straws. Typical materialistic bilge. Why dont you
    try multiple sexual partners, let us notice how it affects your relationship with your
    wife if animal sexual behaviour is no different from human. What about my rabbits,
    they are brother and sister and would have engaged in an incestuous sexual
    relationship had the wee man not had his goolies lopped off by the Vet. Is incest
    acceptable for humans also? Clearly not.

    3. that beefs tastes good to humanity is an appeal to popular opinion and proves
    nothing.

    4. You are not reading what i have written or failing to comprehend it, the Bible
    states animals ARE souls, do you know the difference between possessing
    something and being something.

    5. What are you talking about? God himself gave them the mandate, you think he
    might produce the necessary diet to comply with the physical needs of their bodies,
    yah think?

    (Genesis 1:29) And God went on to say: “Here I have given to you all vegetation
    bearing seed which is on the surface of the whole earth and every tree on which
    there is the fruit of a tree bearing seed. To you let it serve as food.

    are not all essential vitamins contained within fruit and vegetables? hmmm? all
    essential amino acids contained in honey? hmmm? ever seen a rhinoceros go to the
    gym to build muscle? what about a bull? No neither have I.
  11. Joined
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    03 Jul '12 16:01
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    1.It appears to me not only to answer it but as to give a reason why, we are no
    longer living in a physical paradise.

    2. absolute nonsense, there is no evidence that animals commit consensual sex and
    as i have demonstrated its utter folly to attempt to make animal and human sexual
    behaviour synonymous, citing examples of cohabitation is equa ...[text shortened]... ? ever seen a rhinoceros go to the
    gym to build muscle? what about a bull? No neither have I.
    1- we no longer live in a physical paradise because of human error. why should that effect animals?

    2- there is a mountain of evidence regarding same sex activity between animals. google it. the university of olso actually had an exhibition about it a few years ago. like i mentioned bonobo's are well know for it, but it is common in thousands of other species.
    i didnt cite cohabitation as an example, i also never compared it directly to human homosexuality. i would be interested to know what aspects homosexuality god dislikes and then see if it does or doesnt apply to the animal world.

    3- i didnt suggest the taste of beef proves anything, i wondered if animals tasted the same before the sin or if they changed.

    4-yes i apologize, i didnt read it correctly. Animals are souls! ive never come across this before. what is the purpose of them being souls? are they souls waiting to be put in a human body? what happens to all the souls of dead animals?
    do simple celled organisms have souls?

    5- what am i talking about! what are YOU talking about. yes god provided them with all the fruit and veg possible, this doesnt mean they are going to eat the correct amount of each one to get the minerals they need. vegetarians have to be very careful. also due to the different climates needed for different things, distance and lack of refrigeration would be a major problem or did god provide them with a hatch-back and 24hr tesco's.
  12. Account suspended
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    03 Jul '12 16:191 edit
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    1- we no longer live in a physical paradise because of human error. why should that effect animals?

    2- there is a mountain of evidence regarding same sex activity between animals. google it. the university of olso actually had an exhibition about it a few years ago. like i mentioned bonobo's are well know for it, but it is common in thousands of othe ...[text shortened]... igeration would be a major problem or did god provide them with a hatch-back and 24hr tesco's.
    1. it affects animals through exploitation, abuse, extinction, cruelty. The Bible is
    silent upon how it may affect life span.

    2. you google it, i have provided my own reasons demonstrating that its a nonsense
    and that attempting to make human sexual behaviour synonymous with animal is
    utter and complete folly.

    3. the bible is silent on whether they tasted better or not before or after the fall,
    why dont you ask a question that reflects the actual content of scripture.

    4. I also apologise for my high minded tone. What is the purpose of them being
    souls? a soul is simply a living breathing entity, they have life and are souls, the idea
    that there is an ethereal entity which survives death is a non biblical teaching. It
    can be traced directly to platonic philosophy.

    5. why have you any reason to assume that God would not provide them with
    direction? we are talking about a physical paradise, designed for perfect human
    habitation, one would think that God would take care of the fundamentals.
  13. Joined
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    03 Jul '12 17:381 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    1. it affects animals through exploitation, abuse, extinction, cruelty. The Bible is
    silent upon how it may affect life span.

    2. you google it, i have provided my own reasons demonstrating that its a nonsense
    and that attempting to make human sexual behaviour synonymous with animal is
    utter and complete folly.

    3. the bible is silent on ...[text shortened]... ed for perfect human
    habitation, one would think that God would take care of the fundamentals.
    1. yes robbie, thanks for highlighting more examples of gods cruelty to animals. man commits a crime and billions of animals suffer, although the bible remains quiet, i wondered if any believers had any idea why god would punish innocent animals.

    2. your reasons are based on the fact that you deny same sex animal commit sexual acts to each other. as this is incorrect you may need to re-vist your original opinions.
    again one more time for just to clarify, i have not said animal homosexuality is the same as human homosexuality, im unsure and slightly bemused that you insist on making this point.

    would i be right in saying god doesnt have a problem with the actual physical act of homosexual sex in humans? its more to do with his declaration that a man should marry a woman and only have sex when married so as a consequence a homosexual act should never occur.
    so the natural conclusion from this would be - god thinks its okay for animals to be gay because they dont need to get married.

    3. it wouldnt be in the scripture because it makes no sense either way. if god made meat tasty to human before the fall it would be bizarre. if he did it after the fall it would be cruel and also rewarding humans while also punishing them.
    i bet the scripture avoids saying when lions developed their sharp teeth, or a shark decided it hated kelp, or why some animals decided to stay vegetarian, some decided to only eat meat, others thought a bit of both would be good, or why some stupid animals decided they would no longer live off solid food and would only drink blood from now on. or why some animals developed poison to kill.
    what about plants? what did the venus fly trap eat before the fall? did it just wait around for a leaf to fall in its mouth or was it okay for plants to eat meat.
    if you only study what something is telling you, then you will never see the whole picture. sometimes you have to look at what is missing to find the truth.

    4. im slightly confused, is this specific of jw teachings or all christians, im sure ive been told different by christians. either way, if we are essentially the same as animals, why has god singled humans out for special attention?

    5. so how did that go down, did he give them the actual break-down of vitamins needed, seems a bit too heavy on the science for those days. or did he give them a basic over view telling them how much of each thing to eat but not saying why. i guess it could explain why they started eating meat, but who told them meat was such a good source of vitamins......first he makes them tasty, then he packs them full of vitamins and minerals!!!


    i have a question just for you robbie -



    6- why is the eyes of god does a human egg at the moment of impregnation have more value than an animal (which you have described as a soul)

    oohhhh i have another

    7- if god never intended us to eat meat and the instinct to do so developed after the fall. if christians know this why do they all not give up eating meat and strive to ignore these urges, and be how god intended. especially in an age where we have plenty of alternative and it is so easy to do.
  14. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    03 Jul '12 17:48
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    then perhaps you might like to ask some of them to post their reasons in the forum,
    learned behaviour is not the same as abstract thought, putting stones into water so as
    to get bread, or using bread to catch fish is not the same as reasoning. Sorry, its
    absurd to state that it is. Penguins also cooperate, as do ants, Bible makes it clear that
    its instinctive, not reasoned behaviour.
    I said they could reason, not type. 😛

    The whole point of the experiments is if the animals can figure out for themselves how to cooperate and get the food, then they are showing intelligence. They are not trained how to get the food.

    Heh, I have to find the one where the monkey happily accepts some veggies until they start giving the monkey next door grapes. Then, he starts throwing the veggies and getting mad. It's hilarious. I defy you to tell me that is mere instinct.
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    03 Jul '12 18:14
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    I said they could reason, not type. 😛

    The whole point of the experiments is if the animals can figure out for themselves how to cooperate and get the food, then they are showing intelligence. They are not trained how to get the food.

    Heh, I have to find the one where the monkey happily accepts some veggies until they start giving the monkey ...[text shortened]... owing the veggies and getting mad. It's hilarious. I defy you to tell me that is mere instinct.
    LOL, Bible states that its instinctive wisdom, no one messes with the sacred text.!
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