1. Felicific Forest
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    02 Oct '05 21:38
    http://www.crisismagazine.com/january2003/feature1.htm

    Another Reckoning.

    A Response to Daniel Jonah Goldhagen’s A Moral Reckoning:
    The Role of the Catholic Church in the Holocaust
    and its Unfulfilled Duty of Repair.

    By Ronald J. Rychlak

    http://www.crisismagazine.com/january2003/feature1.htm
  2. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    02 Oct '05 22:235 edits
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    http://www.crisismagazine.com/january2003/feature1.htm

    Another Reckoning.

    A Response to Daniel Jonah Goldhagen’s A Moral Reckoning:
    The Role of the Catholic Church in the Holocaust
    and its Unfulfilled Duty of Repair.

    By Ronald J. Rychlak

    http://www.crisismagazine.com/january2003/feature1.htm
    This entire site is an embarrassing collage of Catholic propaganda.

    It seems devoted to putting some of the church's more shameful acts "in context." In addition to this one on the Holocaust, there is the one you cited on the Spanish Inquisition actually benefitting Europe because the "secular persecution of heretics," whatever that might mean, was even worse. And I love this headline:

    "A Necessary Bondage? When The Church Endorsed Slavery. T. David Curp looks at a dark period in church history and explains the context around it."

    The "12 Myths" are rather amusing as well, both in their presence at the forefront of this source and in their content. I particularly like myths 2, 3, 6, 8, and all of them, I guess, when put "in the context" of calling them myths that this site can supposedly debunk.

    Crisis Magazine is an embarrassment and is only going to be a disservice if you attempt to use it to persuade others.
  3. Felicific Forest
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    02 Oct '05 23:183 edits
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    This entire site is an embarrassing collage of Catholic propaganda.

    It seems devoted to putting some of the church's more shameful acts "in context." In addition to this one on the Holocaust, there is the one you cited on the Spanish Inquisition actually benefitting Europe because the "secular persecution of heretics," whatever that might me ...[text shortened]... embarrassment and is only going to be a disservice if you attempt to use it to persuade others.
    I'll use another site. The site is not what I want to discuss.

    http://catholiceducation.org/articles/facts/fm0015.html
  4. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    02 Oct '05 23:212 edits
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    I'll use another site. The site is not the subject I want to discuss.

    http://catholiceducation.org/articles/facts/fm0015.html
    You've got to be kidding. That one is even worse, although both sites share a lot of content. Here are the same myths from the other site:

    http://catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0140.html

    A quick glance at the content under this site's Core Subjects and Current Issues reveals that it is Catholic propaganda.

    http://www.catholiceducation.org/

    I particularly like the Facts and Misconceptions page.
  5. Felicific Forest
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    02 Oct '05 23:232 edits
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    You've got to be kidding. That one is even worse, although both sites share a lot of content. Here are the same myths from the other site:

    http://catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0140.html
    Look at the presented facts in the article. You are poisoning the well.


    .... and trying to change the subject.
  6. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    02 Oct '05 23:301 edit
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    Look at the presented facts.
    They are hare to find, like needles in a haystack of rhetoric of this sort:

    "In today’s culture of death where the term 'civilization' can only be used loosely, the Church’s civilizing mission is as important today as it ever was."
  7. Felicific Forest
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    02 Oct '05 23:322 edits
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    They are hare to find, like needles in a haystack of rhetoric of this sort:

    "In today’s culture of death where the term 'civilization' can only be used loosely, the Church’s civilizing mission is as important today as it ever was."
    http://catholiceducation.org/articles/facts/fm0015.html



    Are you quoting from the above article ?
  8. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    02 Oct '05 23:34
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    http://catholiceducation.org/articles/facts/fm0015.html



    Are you quoting from the above article ?
    I'm quoting from the response to Myth 6.

    http://catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0140.html

    You may consider this a form of argument against the cited article if you wish, as I am engaging in demonstrating that it is not a credible source of fact.
  9. Felicific Forest
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    02 Oct '05 23:371 edit
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    I'm quoting from the response to Myth 6.

    http://catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0140.html

    You may consider this a form of argument against the cited article if you wish, as I am engaging in demonstrating that it is not a credible source of fact.
    Red herrings.

    I want to discuss the Rychlak article.

    http://catholiceducation.org/articles/facts/fm0015.html
  10. Felicific Forest
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    02 Oct '05 23:411 edit
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    I'm quoting from the response to Myth 6.

    http://catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0140.html

    You may consider this a form of argument against the cited article if you wish, as I am engaging in demonstrating that it is not a credible source of fact.
    [/b]Dr.S: "You may consider this a form of argument against the cited article if you wish, as I am engaging in demonstrating that it is not a credible source of fact.[/b]


    The fallacy of poisoning the well.
    The fallacy of changing the subject
    The fallacy called Red herring.

    Please stop hijacking this thread.
  11. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    02 Oct '05 23:41
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    Red herrings.

    I want to discuss the Rychlak article.

    http://catholiceducation.org/articles/facts/fm0015.html
    Why don't you summarize the points for us then.

    It's a long article which would probably take me an hour to read. I'm not going to waste my time if its content is similar to the shorter articles on the site that I have read and deemed to be worthless. I have no reason to think that this particular article won't also consist primarily of propaganda when the other articles on the site do.
  12. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    02 Oct '05 23:43
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    Dr.S: "You may consider this a form of argument against the cited article if you wish, as I am engaging in demonstrating that it is not a credible source of fact.[/b]

    The fallacy of poisoning the well.
    The fallacy of changing the subject
    The fallacy called Red herring.[/b]
    I hereby introduce a new logical fallacy: Argumentum Ad Ivanhoe.

    The fallacy consists of any rational person attempting to engage Ivanhoe in any sort of logical discussion, since the exercise is doomed to failure.
  13. Felicific Forest
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    02 Oct '05 23:52
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Why don't you summarize the points for us then.

    It's a long article which would probably take me an hour to read. I'm not going to waste my time if its content is similar to the shorter articles on the site that I have read and deemed to be worthless. I have no reason to think that this particular article won't also consist primarily of propaganda when the other articles on the site do.
    If you do not wish to waste your time reading the article from a serious scholar trying to find out the truth, because you apparently have made up your mind about this issue, then this is all right by me, but don't go asking me to summarise an article you already have categorised as "propaganda" without checking out the content and the facts it presents.
  14. Felicific Forest
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    02 Oct '05 23:532 edits
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    I hereby introduce a new logical fallacy: Argumentum Ad Ivanhoe.

    The fallacy consists of any rational person attempting to engage Ivanhoe in any sort of logical discussion, since the exercise is doomed to failure.
    Google on "Goldhagen v. Pius XII RONALD J. RYCHLAK "

    ... and you will see this is a well known article.

    This is the man we are talking about.

    http://www.olemiss.edu/depts/law_school/faculty_rychlak.html


    Please, stop hijacking this thread.
  15. Standard memberfrogstomp
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    03 Oct '05 00:37
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    I hereby introduce a new logical fallacy: Argumentum Ad Ivanhoe.

    The fallacy consists of any rational person attempting to engage Ivanhoe in any sort of logical discussion, since the exercise is doomed to failure.
    You dang thread hijacker, you ought to be ...umm ,,,well,,,congratulated for your perserverence.
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