Apples

When God made man He gave man a life for his human existence. But God did not create man with God's life. The created man had no choice about having the human life. But concerning man having the divine Person as his life - with that man did have a choice.

God intended that man would of his free will chose to bring into his human vessel the life of God in addition. For man to be a creature or a creation of God man had no choice in that matter. But for man to be a of the same divine family of God with God's life - in this man had a choice.

The choice was placed before the created man in the form of two trees. One tree represented dependence upon God. The other represented independence from God. One tree "the tree of life" man God as life come into man to be one with man in a divine / human mingling.

The other tree was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It represented Satan's dynamic withdrawal away from God in independence from God. Both good and evil were on that tree of death. Man would have the knowledge of good and evil but not the power to fully resist the evil nor to perform the good.

Today we have all been polluted from Adam's taking in the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We are very proud of this knowledge. But we are corrupted in our pride and only have the knowledge. We cannot resist the evil that we know. And we cannot always perform the good that we know. Man has become Satanified.

God's plan has not changed from the beginning. He came in Christ to redeem man from his sins and impart the divine life into man:

"The thief does not come except to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life and may have it abundantly" (John 10:10)

The human life is a living vessel created as a container to contain the uncreated Person who is the eternal life. He is called [b]"The Father". He is the uncreated and indistructible eternal life embodied in Jesus Christ and transmitted into man, not by fruit today, but by the Holy Spirit:

"The last Adam [Christ] became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

You are parsing words. Being curious is the 1st step in the quest for knowledge.

Originally posted by jaywill
When God made man He gave man a life for his human existence. But God did not create man with God's life. The created man had no choice about having the human life. But concerning man having the divine Person as his life - with that man did have a choice.

God intended that man would of his free will chose to bring into his human vessel the life of God in ...[text shortened]... rit:

[b]"The last Adam [Christ] became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)[/b]

What father would kill his son. Christianity is a bloody awful religion. If there is a god, it certainly could have created a kind world free from bloodshed and suffering.

Don't feed me any blather about god's plan which you are so sure of on one hand and yet say man cannot understand on the other hand.

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What father would kill his son. Christianity is a bloody awful religion. If there is a god, it certainly could have created a kind world free from bloodshed and suffering.
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1.) Christ is not a religion. Christ is a living Person.

2.) Why don't you also ask what kind of Father would resurrect His Son from the dead and establish His name as the highest name for all eternity putting all authority into His hands.

3.) The direction and destiny toward which the creation is moving is one in which sin, death, and unrighteousness are no more. The climax and the culmination of God's eternal purpose is a universe in which there is no more war, death, and suffering.

It is you who are wanting the status quo with your rejection of the Son of God. If you really cared than you would start with your own personal reconciliation to God.

But no. You want to start with the other guy first, if anybody.


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Don't feed me any blather about god's plan which you are so sure of on one hand and yet say man cannot understand on the other hand.
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Don't feed me your lame arguments. If a person sits down to a turkey dinner and only hunts for bones to choke on he is being turned off because he wants to be turned off.

Your whole thread doesn't even indicate much human maturity, let alone any spiritual understanding. Essentially Joe, you're turned off because you want to be turned off.

Some of us are concerned with the knowledge of God. We want to know God.

I think I'll leave you to elaborate on your apples. or your collection of lame complaints about a book which apparently you haven't read much.

Does God stifle human curiosity?

Here are a few of the subjects about which many people are curious which are elaborated on within the first, let's say, 12 chapters of the book of Genesis:

1.) The origin of the stars and the planet earth.

2.) The origin of animals and plants on the earth.

3.) The origin of human beings on the earth.

4.) The purpose for which man was made to exist.

5.) The reason for man's moral fall.

6.) The origin of the institution of marriage.

7.) The history of the first murder.

8.) The first man-made religion.

9.) The origin of the first human city.

10.) The origin of the different human languages.

11.) The origin of the spread of people across the face of the earth.

You also have the invention of industry.

We are told of the invention of musical performance.

We are told of the invention of agriculture.

We are told of the reaction of God to the downward moral fall of society.

We are told of a way of salvation and rescue of man and animals, and a new beginning.


But no, according to Joe, God must want to stifle our curiosity!

Originally posted by jaywill
I suppose the poster is refering to the forbidden fruit in Genesis account of man's fall.

The account does show that God is concerned with what man takes into himself as food. And this is more than just a physical concern. God had only one commandment really for Adam. That was to be careful what he took into him as food.

What you take in will be ...[text shortened]... dge of good and evil took Satan, God's enemy, into his being.

Man became Satanified.

My Bible says it was a serpent which convinced Eve to eat the fruit. I can't find a refrence to satan in the story at all.

Originally posted by TheSkipper
My Bible says it was a serpent which convinced Eve to eat the fruit. I can't find a refrence to satan in the story at all.

In the book of Genesis you will not find a clear cut designation by name of Satan. But as it is with the Bible all of the revelation is not always given in one location of Scripture.

One exceedingly clear cut reference connecting the serpent to Satan is found in Revelation 12:9:

"And the great dragon was cast down, the ancient serpent, he who is called the Devil and Satan, he who deceives the whole inhabited earth; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast down with him."

Here "the ancient serpent" certainly refers back to the serpent in Eden who deceived Eve which led in turn to the deception of the whole inhabited earth.

I don't claim to understand everything about this serpent and the spiritual enemy Satan. However, what the Bible wants us to understand it clearly explains. We should think of that serpent as the Satan.

If someone suggests that Revelation was written too much latter then I would say:

1.) With the everlasting God who transcends time there is no "too long" in terms of time for Him to reveal something.

2.) The book of Job is believed to predate the writing of Genesis. And there, although a deceiving serpent is not mentioned, you do have the activity, slander, opposition, attacking, evil insinuations, and lies of Satan both towards God and towards man. See Job 1:6-12 and 2:1-6.

Here is an earlier writing than Genesis. The activity of Satan as an adversary of God is revealed. He is the chief cosmic being accusing God to man and accusing man to God. Unless there is some perverse desire to conceal his identity, most readers of the Bible, can recognize that either Satan or a Satanic agent is at work in the Genesis three account of man's failure to trust God but rather follow after a lie.

I will not take the word of any man that there is a supernatural god and that jesus, the cause of much suffering, is his son. Is your belief in this alien amazing creature(god) based on what you have learned from this creature directly, or what you have learned from other men?

Any person who believes in virgin births and resurections and everlasting hell is a little weak in the brain. Such a person may be willing to make investments with the dividends payable after death!

joe667,

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Any person who believes in virgin births and resurections and everlasting hell is a little weak in the brain. Such a person may be willing to make investments with the dividends payable after death!
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I'll address the second paragraph of your post today.

Three impossible things you commit now to refuse to believe:

1.) The virgin birth of Jesus Christ.

2.) Resurrections from the dead.

3.) Eternal punishment.

Each one of these subjects is weighty. Briefly though -

1.) It does not amaze me that the Author of all life Who Himself is uncreated and always was, has the power and authority to cause a virgin birth if His plan calls for one.

The first verse in the Bible says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth ..."(Genesis 1:1) .

Eventually, this statement convinces me that this Creator God has the power to call things into existence which do not exist and call unbeing into being.

2.) Similarly, with resurrections from the dead. Of course you and I cannot do that. But the God Who in the beginning created the heavens and the earth is an uncreated Life. He is a Life which always was. He is a life which is indistructible.

That such a God has the power and authority to overcome death should not shock me. In fact the resurrection of Jesus Christ is the seal that the Ultimate Being is Divine Life which cannot be terminated or destroyed or corrupted.

3.) Now to eternal punishment.

This is a difficult issue to express few or many words about. But at this time I believe that it is the responsibility of the Ultimate Governor of the universe to inform all creatures that we cannot have two things:

We cannot both oppose God forever and win.

Stated another way - we cannot oppose God forever and not lose.

He is the ultimate ground of being and the final authority. We may oppose Him even forever if we desire. But we cannot have that and victory also. We MUST lose if that is the route we have chosen. We cannot expect to oppose God and win. We can oppose God but we will and must lose. Damnation is ultimate losing.

I think this just goes with the responsibility of being God Almighty. My reaction, instead of resenting it, is meditating on the fantastic length this loving God has gone so that we might not suffer that eternal defeat.

Jesus has already gone to hell for everyone. There is no need for us to have to suffer that fate. There is certainly no need for us to set our wills to oppose God forever.

We've been badly deceived. The "will of God" is actually another term for what we all desire in terms of everlasting righteousness, beauty, love, and joy.

The enemy is not God.

I don't know about God's apples, but my apples are more important to me than pretty much anything else.

Originally posted by 667joe
The christian god is clearly more concerned about his apples than his children!

The Bible said Fruit.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v20/i1/apple.asp

Originally posted by josephw
Some unbelievers are clearly more concerned with nonsense.

Seems to me that you are making the assumption that believers are only concerned with things that matter, or things of importance. I argue that non-believers are equally concerned with things other than "nonsense," but (and) you are guilty of making a value judgments: which is to say that the things you think that believers 'concerned' about are probably based on nonsense, speculation, and unsupportable religious hogwash!