Spirituality
08 Jun 22
08 Jun 22
I think the Garden of Eden story works well as an allegory [although, as an aside, it can be argued that it depicts one of the most stupendously evil acts by any God figure in any religious literature that I am aware of, but never mind that for now...].
And, as an allegory, it indicates there was a creative and imaginative effort by Bronze Age people to wrap their heads around their belief in the existence of a divine lawgiver, the need for order in their society, and an understanding of the cause of the immoral and anti-social acts that are part and parcel of the human condition.
But to be STILL taking it literally something like six millennia later does seem rather odd. I wouldn't use the word "dumb"; I'd call it "odd".
08 Jun 22
@fmf saidThe problems associated with taking the bible literally are not just intellectual, in doing so the protagonist brings down the entire Christian belief structure in a pile of contradictory morally incomprehensible flabbergastery.
I think the Garden of Eden story works well as an allegory [although, as an aside, it can be argued that it depicts one of the most stupendously evil acts by any God figure in any religious literature that I am aware of, but never mind that for now...].
And, as an allegory, it indicates there was a creative and imaginative effort by Bronze Age people to wrap their heads arou ...[text shortened]... ng like six millennia later does seem rather odd. I wouldn't use the word "dumb"; I'd call it "odd".
@fmf saidI think the Garden of Eden story works well as an allegory.
I think the Garden of Eden story works well as an allegory [although, as an aside, it can be argued that it depicts one of the most stupendously evil acts by any God figure in any religious literature that I am aware of, but never mind that for now...].
And, as an allegory, it indicates there was a creative and imaginative effort by Bronze Age people to wrap their heads arou ...[text shortened]... ng like six millennia later does seem rather odd. I wouldn't use the word "dumb"; I'd call it "odd".
The geographical Garden of Eden, northeast of the Persian Gulf as described in the Bible is now under water. Deciphering the question of allegory vs fact would be nearly impossible, since little or no physical evidence from that era would be left.
08 Jun 22
@divegeester saidI THOUGHT that was what I was doing here. You're saying it would happen without me?
The problems associated with taking the bible literally are not just intellectual, in doing so the protagonist brings down the entire Christian belief structure in a pile of contradictory morally incomprehensible flabbergastery.
08 Jun 22
@divegeester saidAnd if you're not a biologist or geologist or other scientific discipline, you largely get away with thinking the earth is only 6K years old.
“My point, once again, is not that those ancient people told literal stories and we are now smart enough to take them symbolically, but that they told them symbolically and we are now dumb enough to take them literally.”
John Dominic Crossan
"If [the earth] revolved around the moon it would not make a pennyworth of difference to me or my work." -Sherlock Holmes
08 Jun 22
@mchill saidSo, you think the Garden of Eden story might NOT be an allegory?
The geographical Garden of Eden, northeast of the Persian Gulf as described in the Bible is now under water. Deciphering the question of allegory vs fact would be nearly impossible, since little or no physical evidence from that era would be left.
08 Jun 22
@divegeester saidJesus said, "I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes."
“My point, once again, is not that those ancient people told literal stories and we are now smart enough to take them symbolically, but that they told them symbolically and we are now dumb enough to take them literally.”
John Dominic Crossan
Sad to say I think Crossan will hear the words in Revelation 22:18,19 echo in his mind throughout eternity.
08 Jun 22
@josephw saidDo you think people experiencing everlasting life will have scripture "echoing in [their] minds throughout eternity"? Or are you suggesting that what you know about Crossan's beliefs means he may be facing "damnation"?
Sad to say I think Crossan will hear the words in Revelation 22:18,19 echo in his mind throughout eternity.
08 Jun 22
@josephw saidOh yes I forgot about the heart-of-darkness threat to melt me for eternity in lava if my subjective beliefs differ from your subjective beliefs.
Jesus said, "I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes."
Sad to say I think Crossan will hear the words in Revelation 22:18,19 echo in his mind throughout eternity.
Yep, I’m back on board the Doctrine of Death Express and toeing the torture line.
08 Jun 22
@fmf saidCrossan doesn't believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Do you think people experiencing everlasting life will have scripture "echoing in [their] minds throughout eternity"? Or are you suggesting that what you know about Crossan's beliefs means he may be facing "damnation"?
It's a clear indication he's headed for judgment.
@divegeester saidJust keep undermining the veracity of the scriptures and mischaracterizing and bringing into question it's intent and meaning as you attempt to malign Bible believing Christians.
Oh yes I forgot about the heart-of-darkness threat to melt me for eternity in lava if my subjective beliefs differ from your subjective beliefs.
Yep, I’m back on board the Doctrine of Death Express and toeing the torture line.
@josephw saidJust keep claiming I’m undermining the scriptures, whilst denying that the scriptures can actually be undermined, whilst also pretending you don’t realise it’s your subjective beliefs I’m undermining.
Just keep undermining the veracity of the scriptures and mischaracterizing and bringing into question it's intent and meaning as you attempt to malign Bible believing Christians.
If I want to “malign” you, I’ll just call you a short-arsed angry little churchman with no ministry, lots of attitude and “spiritual muscle” (as you once claimed of yourself).
@divegeester saidTwisted
Just keep claiming I’m undermining the scriptures, whilst denying that the scriptures can actually be undermined, whilst also pretending you don’t realise it’s your subjective beliefs I’m undermining.
If I want to “malign” you, I’ll just call you a short-arsed angry little churchman with no ministry, lots of attitude and “spiritual muscle” (as you once claimed of yourself).