Originally posted by amannionIt's truly amazing how polarised our thinking is.
Not the word of god, but rather words written in a book that you are told or you believe have come from god.
There is fact and fiction true - so how do you tell one from the other? What's the basis of your system to adjudicate fact from fiction? I use natural vs. supernatural. You don't have that option since you assume supernatural to be possible.
Accept one supernatural explanation and accept them all.
Originally posted by josephwAnd of course this 'word of god' came to directly from this aforementioned god, right?
[b]Either you accept that a supernatural explanation allows for all of this, or you accept that the world can only be explained naturally.
No sir. The existence of God does not mean that tooth fairies exist.
If I'm wrong, if someone can rise from the dead, if miracles can happen, if god can create the world, then anything is possible.
I ...[text shortened]... r, but to the soul that sees in themselves a flaw so ugly as to cause death, is the life gate.[/b]
Oh, you READ about it? So now you believe everything written just like it was facts and not some dude deciding he needs a nice power base?
Originally posted by josephwI play one of my regular chess games against a fundamentalist christian from the US. We often discuss the same sort of issues that are covered here in these threads - although perhaps with a little more civility.
It's truly amazing how polarised our thinking is.
He sometimes suggests that I read the bible and let the word of god infuse me with the truth. (Those are my words - interpretations of what he suggests, not the exact phrasing.)
He describes the conversion experience he had and suggests that I might undergo a similar experience at some stage in my life.
I've explained that I could never undergo a religious conversion, since my position as refusing to accept the possibility of supernatural causes for events, pretty much rules it out.
Were I to undergo something of the order of a 'religious awakening' experience, I would explain it using natural explanations - hallucinations, mis-firings in my brain, or whatever. I could never be converted, since any sort of experience I have that he - or you - might interpret as religious, or pertaining to god or Jesus, I would explain with a completely different framework.
So, yes, we think very differently.
I still do enjoy the discussions though ...
Originally posted by josephwNo, that isn't what it boils down to. I simply don't believe that your sole reason for being Christian is a 'just in case' gamble. If it is, then my advice is to stay as far away from casinos as possible.
Because it's true.
What else can I say?
What if you're wrong? What if Jesus really did rise from the dead?
I mean, that's what it all boils down to, isn't it?
Originally posted by amannion"I still do enjoy the discussions though ..."
I play one of my regular chess games against a fundamentalist christian from the US. We often discuss the same sort of issues that are covered here in these threads - although perhaps with a little more civility.
He sometimes suggests that I read the bible and let the word of god infuse me with the truth. (Those are my words - interpretations of what he su ...[text shortened]... ramework.
So, yes, we think very differently.
I still do enjoy the discussions though ...
So do I.
I don't see any difference between us other than this thing we call spiritual.
I claim to be aware of it and you believe it's an illusion. I'm ok with that. We're still the same. We both put our pants on one leg at a time. We love and care for our families. We enjoy life and seek to experience it to the full.
But, there are some "fundamentalist" types of all stripes who seem to think that if you don't join them you're against them. Extremist.
While there may be some so called Christian types out there that want to emphasize our differences to the point of contention, I don't hold to that belief.
We can live together and work together to make this a safer, better world.
Whatever differences we have is in our minds anyway.
Even if Jesus did say it, if we all would teach our children to obey the golden rule most of the worlds problems would cease to exist.
Originally posted by josephwI agree completely, although I would point out that Jesus wasn't the first one to describe the 'golden rule' - it's much more universal than that.
[b]"I still do enjoy the discussions though ..."
So do I.
I don't see any difference between us other than this thing we call spiritual.
I claim to be aware of it and you believe it's an illusion. I'm ok with that. We're still the same. We both put our pants on one leg at a time. We love and care for our families. We enjoy life and seek to expe ...[text shortened]... ur children to obey the golden rule most of the worlds problems would cease to exist.[/b]
I'm not so sure it's the spiritual that separates us though. I know the word's roots come from the notion of spirit, which of course I'm not familiar with. But I am familiar with that sense of connection to something greater than oneself - I get that at times. I don't think you need to be religious, or believe in god, or believe in supernatural explanations, to get that. I call it spirituality and I'm happy to use the term despite its other baggage.
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Originally posted by jaywillYou're kidding yourself if you don't recognize that the vast majority of Christians have at least one of the following as their "master": Money, Material possessions, Emotions, Expedience, Pleasure
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From, what I've seen, Christians are just as likely to have many of these same "false gods" as atheists.
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Careful now. You are likely to blow your disguise of the clear and reliable interpreter of Christian scripture.[/b]