1. Subscribersonhouse
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    01 Sep '16 12:561 edit
    Me: I really get annoyed when religious folk belittle the works of mankind, like a really great artist say, like Joni Mitchell or Yo Yo Ma, 'well they are ok, but NOTHING compared to our lord' kind of thing.

    Isaac Newton? He knows NOTHING about how we got here so his work is automatically suspect. Only our LORD knows that.

    Totally ignoring the fact we are in kindergarten scientifically and therefore like chiding a 5 year old for not knowing calculus.
  2. Cape Town
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    01 Sep '16 15:30
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Me: I really get annoyed when religious folk belittle the works of mankind, like a really great artist say, like Joni Mitchell or Yo Yo Ma, 'well they are ok, but NOTHING compared to our lord' kind of thing.
    I get annoyed when they give all the credit to God, like 'thank you Jesus, for giving Joni Mitchell all that talent!'. It wouldn't be quite so bad if they didn't simultaneously never give God any credit for all the bad stuff.
  3. Subscribersonhouse
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    01 Sep '16 16:18
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I get annoyed when they give all the credit to God, like 'thank you Jesus, for giving Joni Mitchell all that talent!'. It wouldn't be quite so bad if they didn't simultaneously never give God any credit for all the bad stuff.
    I heard some disturbing statistics the other day: 300 MILLION people died of TB world wide.

    And the 200 million who died in WW1 and 2, So a half BILLION people dead from 1 disease and secular and religious wars. That is a pretty big chunk of the entire human population.

    Yet not a peep from this alleged god, the supposed gracious loving god who would say nothing about how to limit such deaths, forget having it tell how to stop them completely.

    Then of course, they pull the 'So now you know the mind of god' card. A really popular card for the religious set, totally ignoring my original point.
  4. Standard membersonship
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    01 Sep '16 20:382 edits
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    I really get annoyed when religious folk belittle the works of mankind,


    Could you give me the names of two or three notable Christians philosopher types who "belittle the works of mankind" ?

    Even the Bible doesn't "belittle the works of mankind" hardly.

    At the tower of Babel God says "These people are one and will be able to accomplish anything they set out to do." Doesn't sound too belittling to me.

    At the Tower of Babel in Genesis 11

    " And Jehovah said, Behold, they are one people, and they all have one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; and now nothing which they purpose to do will be kept from them." (Genesis 11:6)


    Sounds like God Himself has a high regard for what man is capable of if he unites.

    Here's the catch, I think. Their incredible ingenuity will produce something which nonetheless will be tainted by their sinful nature. Can man be entrusted with unlimited ability to achieve ?

    Maybe it is more than just a matter of what man is technically able to achieve. Maybe something moral and spiritual could be woefully lacking in such a great ability.

    Maybe just because we CAN do it doesn't mean we SHOULD do it.
  5. Subscribersonhouse
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    02 Sep '16 12:34
    Originally posted by sonship
    I really get annoyed when religious folk belittle the works of mankind,


    Could you give me the names of two or three notable Christians philosopher types who "belittle the works of mankind" ?

    Even the Bible doesn't "belittle the works of mankind" hardly.

    At the tower of Babel God says "These people are one and will be able to acc ...[text shortened]... king in such a great ability.

    Maybe just because we CAN do it doesn't mean we SHOULD do it.
    You just proved my point. No matter how much genius a person has, you question their morals since only your god can have real spiritual moral universal values, therefore men suck.
  6. Standard membersonship
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    02 Sep '16 17:052 edits
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    You just proved my point. No matter how much genius a person has, you question their morals since only your god can have real spiritual moral universal values, therefore men suck.
    I didn't say God is the only one with values. But man is damaged, fallen, and in need of reconciliation to God. You don't understand the fall of man.

    But then again, you don't want to understand the fall of man either.

    Anyway man doesn't suck, but he does need to be saved.
  7. SubscriberKewpie
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    03 Sep '16 03:24
    Originally posted by sonship
    I didn't say God is the only one with values. But man is damaged, fallen, and in need of reconciliation to God. You don't understand the fall of man.

    But then again, you don't want to understand the fall of man either.

    Anyway man doesn't suck, but he does need to be [b] saved.
    [/b]
    "But man is damaged, fallen, and in need of reconciliation to God. You don't understand the fall of man. "

    This is the kind of putdown for mankind that really irritates me. I don't mind if you believe every word of the stuff you say, you should keep it among yourselves and let the rest of us be real adult persons making our own informed choices and dealing with whatever life throws at us.

    I don't for a second accept that mankind is "damaged, fallen and in need of reconciliation to God. " I believe that mankind is growing, learning, developing over millennia and will go on doing so until the sun goes cold.

    Your viewpoint looks like "if you're a good child, Santa will bring you something nice, but that means you have to do what I tell you and never question anything." Rubbish!
  8. SubscriberFMF
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    03 Sep '16 03:35
    Originally posted by Kewpie to sonship
    This is the kind of putdown for mankind that really irritates me. I don't mind if you believe every word of the stuff you say, you should keep it among yourselves and let the rest of us be real adult persons making our own informed choices and dealing with whatever life throws at us.
    Lemmonjello applied the word "childish" to sonship at a telling moment in a recent discussion on justice. It's a label that could well stick.
  9. Standard memberFetchmyjunk
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    03 Sep '16 04:21
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Me: I really get annoyed when religious folk belittle the works of mankind, like a really great artist say, like Joni Mitchell or Yo Yo Ma, 'well they are ok, but NOTHING compared to our lord' kind of thing.

    Isaac Newton? He knows NOTHING about how we got here so his work is automatically suspect. Only our LORD knows that.

    Totally ignoring the fact we ...[text shortened]... in kindergarten scientifically and therefore like chiding a 5 year old for not knowing calculus.
    Ironic that you mention Newton, I guess you didn't know he believed in God?
  10. Standard membersonship
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    03 Sep '16 07:541 edit
    Originally posted by Kewpie
    me;
    "But man is damaged, fallen, and in need of reconciliation to God. You don't understand the fall of man. "

    Kp:
    This is the kind of putdown for mankind that really irritates me.


    Why do you not consider it as a Physician's diagnosis intended to heal the sickened patient ? You only hear "putdown". Why do you not instead hear a caring Healer leveling with us about a malady, an illness He can provide cure for?


    I don't mind if you believe every word of the stuff you say, you should keep it among yourselves and let the rest of us be real adult persons making our own informed choices and dealing with whatever life throws at us.


    You're saying not passing on the Good News of a healing great Physician cannot be an adult person's informed choice in dealing with life.

    You're saying you have right to inform others of your philosophy but I must keep mine private. How about we both put our beliefs out there for the public to examine.

    I write about Christ in other people's threads usually when they something about my faith which is misrepresentative. You have every right to open a thread on your Spiritual concepts too.

    What then is your take on the nature of Spirituality ?


    I don't for a second accept that mankind is "damaged, fallen and in need of reconciliation to God.


    In spite of the belief in the revelation of a Fall of man into a damaged state, I also can see the innate dignity and marvelous design of human beings.

    The existence of a Creator does not detract from human worth.

    Do you think we need reconciliation with one another ?


    " I believe that mankind is growing, learning, developing over millennia and will go on doing so until the sun goes cold.


    I don't think growing, learning and developing are verses man having a relationship with God. The direction of growth, learning and developing should be towards God rather that against Him in rebellion to his own hurt.


    Your viewpoint looks like "if you're a good child, Santa will bring you something nice, but that means you have to do what I tell you and never question anything." Rubbish!


    Not really. The "something nice" as a reward is God Himself. What could be better, more valuable, more precious ?

    There was a story about a little boy who stopped by an auction of a very rich owner of a large house. All kinds of wonderful things were being auctioned of by the owner of the house. People were clamoring for this thing or that.

    The little boy grasped what the highest possession would be. He said " I want the OWNER of the house. " He knew that possessing the owner he would possess all the good things that were his too.

    God told Abraham that He Himself was Abraham's exceeding great reward.

    " After these things the word of Jehovah came to Abram in a vision, saying, Do not be afraid, Abram; I am your shield and your exceeding great reward." (Gen. 1:1)
    .

    Some of us grasp that seeking first God's kingdom and His righteousness all things will be added to us. God Himself will be impenetrable shield of protection and our very great reward.

    Being in the realm of the living God is a great enjoyment. And it completes my humanity. I tried living without God. Something so essential was missing. Something of a emptiness was there even in the presence of worldly fun.

    I first became aware of this one moonlite night when I crawled through the window of my house to sit on the roof. It was fall. The leaves all over the ground gleamed in the bring moonlight. It was utterly beautiful.

    But I asked myself in perplexity - "With all this beauty and peace, WHY am I not happy?"

    Something like a God shaped vacuum was in the midst of my being. It was filled on the day I let Jesus Christ come into my heart. I was overjoyed to be forgiven and reconciled to God in Jesus.

    Who said I cannot question things ? I have some good questions.
    We can only handle so much truth at a time.
    But touching this living Person of Christ, touches a peace that surpasses every man's mere intellectual curiosity.
  11. SubscriberFMF
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    03 Sep '16 08:01
    Originally posted by sonship to Kewpie
    Why do you not consider it as a Physician's [b]diagnosis intended to heal the sickened patient ? You only hear "putdown". Why do you not instead hear a caring Healer leveling with us about a malady, an illness He can provide cure for?[/b]
    I would hazard a guess that Kewpie doesn't see you as a physician, or that your diagnosis is right, or that there is any "patient" who is sickened in the way you suggest, or that you are a healer, or that you offer a cure. If someone thinks that the claims you are making about yourself and your ideology amount to nothing and are unpersuasive, then it seems pretty feasible that what you say comes across as little more than an elaborate put down.
  12. SubscriberKewpie
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    03 Sep '16 08:03
    You believe what you want, I believe what I want.
    The thing that ticks me off about religion is that believers think they have it right and the rest of us have to just be lectured and proselytised and preached at. This is actually a thread directed at atheists. I don't normally try to criticise your ideas in other threads.
  13. Subscribersonhouse
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    04 Sep '16 04:37
    Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
    Ironic that you mention Newton, I guess you didn't know he believed in God?
    Right, you really think I didn't know he believed in god? I was talking about the works of Newton not his superstitions.
  14. Standard memberFetchmyjunk
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    04 Sep '16 05:45
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Right, you really think I didn't know he believed in god? I was talking about the works of Newton not his superstitions.
    Which theist exactly rejects Newton's works?
  15. Standard memberKellyJay
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    04 Sep '16 16:30
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    I heard some disturbing statistics the other day: 300 MILLION people died of TB world wide.

    And the 200 million who died in WW1 and 2, So a half BILLION people dead from 1 disease and secular and religious wars. That is a pretty big chunk of the entire human population.

    Yet not a peep from this alleged god, the supposed gracious loving god who would ...[text shortened]... d of god' card. A really popular card for the religious set, totally ignoring my original point.
    What are you complaining about?

    Everyone dies, even if you and your universal views of life were all correct people die, all
    of them will for one reason or another. The 300 million will still die of TB world wide, the
    two wars are still going to claim millions, and on and on. Nothing about life changes when
    it comes to death.

    If the God of the Bible is real this fact doesn't change, but after this life all the crap that
    evil produces will be done away with so there will be no cause for sadness again in God's
    Kingdom. The judgment on evil and all of the fruit of it will be dealt with once and forever.

    If your universal views are also correct concerning the after life nothing good or bad
    happens next, then all the struggle, toils, good, and bad things that people went through
    will be meaningless as nothing becomes of the good done in this life or the evil.

    God letting this life play out so everyone who alive and yet to be will have a shot to come
    into God's Kingdom until that time God ends it. When He does the show is over we all will
    give an account of every idle word we have spoken. Those whose righteousness not as
    good Jesus' will come up short and they will pay for sins they have committed.
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