1. Standard memberno1marauder
    Naturally Right
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    05 Dec '05 22:33
    Originally posted by Weadley
    Can there be such a thing as a bad Christian.

    I meant take RBHill for example..

    Hates women.... used the "N" word in posts.

    Certainly he is a "Bad Christian" or would he just be a "Failing Christian" by failing to act in a Christian like way towards others at this chess site.

    Discuss...
    No Flaming of RB either... just discuss are there good and bad christians or only good ones.
    Weadley: Take RBHILL


    PLEEZE!!
  2. Standard memberNemesio
    Ursulakantor
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    05 Dec '05 22:38
    Originally posted by Darfius
    We do not have the originals. Why are you telling him to do the impossible?

    "Born again" appears to be the proper translation, though it could also say "born from above" which means the same thing (that a man must be born of the Spirit).
    Born again is clearly incorrect because Jesus corrects Nicodemus's
    error.

    They do not mean the same thing, unless you always say 'again'
    when you mean 'from above' in normal English.

    Nemesio
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    05 Dec '05 22:39
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    You don't do it publiclly that is gossip. That is what a PM is for.
    Good advice is good advice, however it comes. What I find amazing strange is that you must, by definition, be trying to improve yourself as a Christian, in order to prepare yourself for the right to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. And yet you steadfastly cling to your stubbornness and foolish arrogance by refusing the help of others. Why? Don't you want to sit with god?
  4. Standard memberDarfius
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    05 Dec '05 22:43
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    Born again is clearly incorrect because Jesus corrects Nicodemus's
    error.

    They do not mean the same thing, unless you always say 'again'
    when you mean 'from above' in normal English.

    Nemesio
    That's a non sequitir. Jesus is correcting Nicodemus' erroneous understanding of the phrase "born again", not correcting Nicodemus' understanding that Jesus DID say "born again".

    Within the context of the passage, they both mean the same thing. What we say in the English language in general is irrelevant to what they mean within the context of this particular passage, and that is that one must be born of the Spirit.
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    05 Dec '05 22:49
    Originally posted by Darfius
    That's a non sequitir. Jesus is correcting Nicodemus' erroneous understanding of the phrase "born again", not correcting Nicodemus' understanding that Jesus DID say "born again".

    Within the context of the passage, they both mean the same thing. What we say in the English language in general is irrelevant to what they mean within the context of this particular passage, and that is that one must be born of the Spirit.
    On the contrary it is of utmost importance if we are to translate another language. 'Born from above' could clearly be construed as in the manner of Jesus' birth, coming down from heaven to be born as a man. Whereas 'born again' could be construed as undergoing baptism and having the sin of your previous life washed clean, allowing you to start a second life.

    The language is critical to both pre-translation interpretation by the translators and post-translation interpretation by those that read it.
  6. Standard memberDarfius
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    05 Dec '05 22:52
    Originally posted by Starrman
    On the contrary it is of utmost importance if we are to translate another language. 'Born from above' could clearly be construed as in the manner of Jesus' birth, coming down from heaven to be born as a man. Whereas 'born again' could be construed as undergoing baptism and having the sin of your previous life washed clean, allowing you to start a sec ...[text shortened]... ion interpretation by the translators and post-translation interpretation by those that read it.
    What is critical is context. In LIGHT of context, either phrase speaks about the same event.
  7. Felicific Forest
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    05 Dec '05 22:53
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    No such thing as 'born again.' The fact that you continue to lie
    about the contents of the Bible is an indication that you are not
    a 'True Believer.'

    Nemesio
    Here we go again. How very annoying.
  8. Felicific Forest
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    05 Dec '05 22:54
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    He is helping you out. He is pointing out your hypocritical
    shortcomings. I've helped you out, too.

    However, you fail to change. You fail to adapt. You fail
    to make amends. A 'True Believer' would recognize this.

    Nemesio
    .... and again.
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    05 Dec '05 22:541 edit
    Originally posted by Darfius
    What is critical is context. In LIGHT of context, either phrase speaks about the same event.
    And what about in other text where such things occur and the meanings differ? Would those situations also by only contexually critical?

    EDIT: They would not of course and so we must apply the same guidelines to both types of passage.
  10. Felicific Forest
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    05 Dec '05 22:54
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Weadley: Take RBHILL


    PLEEZE!!
    ..... and again.
  11. Standard memberDarfius
    The Apologist
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    05 Dec '05 23:07
    Originally posted by Starrman
    And what about in other text where such things occur and the meanings differ? Would those situations also by only contexually critical?

    EDIT: They would not of course and so we must apply the same guidelines to both types of passage.
    You are confusing yourself and others.

    Provide an example of "this other text" you speak of.
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    05 Dec '05 23:13
    Originally posted by Darfius
    You are confusing yourself and others.

    Provide an example of "this other text" you speak of.
    I mean other passages in the bible, as should have been obvious. Or are you saying you misinterpreted my use of language?
  13. Standard memberDarfius
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    05 Dec '05 23:201 edit
    Originally posted by Starrman
    I mean other passages in the bible, as should have been obvious. Or are you saying you misinterpreted my use of language?
    Give a specific example and explain what you mean. It appears as if you are intentionally obfuscating.
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    05 Dec '05 23:22
    Originally posted by Darfius
    Give a specific example and explain what you mean. It appears as if you are intentionally obfuscating.
    Balls does it. You know as well as I do that there are many passages in the bible which are constantly under interpretive debate.
  15. Standard memberDarfius
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    05 Dec '05 23:29
    Originally posted by Starrman
    Balls does it. You know as well as I do that there are many passages in the bible which are constantly under interpretive debate.
    What does that have to do with whether or not ALL instances of verses where another translation is possible making the verses contingent upon the translation for meaning?

    For instance, in Galatians 1:3, in the phrase "our Lord Jesus Christ", one textual variant is "the Lord Jesus Christ". Does the word "the" rather than "our" change the meaning of Galatians 1:3? Obviously not.
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