1. Standard memberDasa
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    14 Dec '11 12:59
    The Vedic teachings are perfect and are for the civilized man.

    The Vedic teachings do not teach vegetarianism.

    However they do instruct people to be civilized and respect life in all its forms and eat foods in the mode of goodness such as fruits, grains, milk, vegetables................which means it is a fore-gone conclusion that they will automatically be a vegetarian if they behave civilized.

    The goal of Vedic teachings is to teach people to love God - and one cannot love God if they are not civilized and have bad qualities and a blemished character.

    Killing animals for the satisfaction of the uncontrolled tongue is uncivilised and barbaric and shows how ignorant the person is about his life and the life all around him.

    The false religion of Christianity teach that animals do not have souls and so they can be killed................and this teaching is false and was fabricated by the meat eating Bible compilers.

    How does a thing live without the life giving soul?

    Truly the Bible is a disgrace to teach such falsity......and misguide,s the entire world into ignorance and into sinful life.

    People who are dishonest and insincere when it comes to spirituality - defend this false teaching because they cannot control their mind and senses and therefore continue to accept and teach false knowledge from the Bible.

    If a person eats meat and has no care for listening to the reasons why it is abominable - then they will make zero advancement towards God consciousness and simply return to this world of suffering again and again.

    Vegetarianism is not the issue here.................but behaving civilized and becoming pure is.

    Vegetarianism is just a consequence of being civilized and spiritually aware - and that's why it is so important.

    And without being spiritually aware - God consciousness will not develop at all.
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    14 Dec '11 13:352 edits
    Originally posted by Dasa
    The Vedic teachings are perfect and are for the civilized man.

    The Vedic teachings do not teach vegetarianism.

    However they do instruct people to be civilized and respect life in all its forms and eat foods in the mode of goodness such as fruits, grains, milk, vegetables................which means it is a fore-gone conclusion that they will automatically important.

    And without being spiritually aware - God consciousness will not develop at all.
    However they do instruct people to be civilized and respect life in all its forms and eat foods in the mode of goodness such as fruits, grains, milk, vegetables................which means it is a fore-gone conclusion that they will automatically be a vegetarian if they behave civilized.

    The goal of Vedic teachings is to teach people to love God - and one cannot love God if they are not civilized and have bad qualities and a blemished character.

    Killing animals for the satisfaction of the uncontrolled tongue is uncivilised and barbaric and shows how ignorant the person is about his life and the life all around him.

    The false religion of Christianity teach that animals do not have souls and so they can be killed................and this teaching is false and was fabricated by the meat eating Bible compilers.

    How does a thing live without the life giving soul?

    Truly the Bible is a disgrace to teach such falsity......and misguide,s the entire world into ignorance and into sinful life.

    People who are dishonest and insincere when it comes to spirituality - defend this false teaching because they cannot control their mind and senses and therefore continue to accept and teach false knowledge from the Bible.



    Because this is not a Christian Forum per se, I would much rather allow you to espouse whatever spiritual beliefs you have without interference. But you always seem not to be happy to do so unless you denigrade my Christian faith.

    You invite a challeging response then.

    You say about "The goal of Vedic teachings is to teach people to love God - and one cannot love God if they are not civilized and have bad qualities and a blemished character."

    How then is it the case that people do NOT love God ? How did such a state come about that people who you think should love God do not ?
    How then is it the case that people who should not have blemishes have them ?
    How did it come about that people who should be civilized are not ?
    How did it come about that people who should not have "bad qualitites" have them ?
    What went wrong with this world ?
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    14 Dec '11 13:541 edit
    Originally posted by Dasa
    The Vedic teachings are perfect and are for the civilized man.

    The Vedic teachings do not teach vegetarianism.

    However they do instruct people to be civilized and respect life in all its forms and eat foods in the mode of goodness such as fruits, grains, milk, vegetables................which means it is a fore-gone conclusion that they will automatically important.

    And without being spiritually aware - God consciousness will not develop at all.
    The false religion of Christianity teach that animals do not have souls and so they can be killed.


    I don't know what Christianity you refer to. However, I have always thought that according to my Bible, animals have souls.

    Copied without permission from the Apologetics Press:

    " In Genesis 1:20,24,30, God spoke of the nephesh hayyah—literally “soul breathers” or “life breathers” (often translated as “living creatures” or “life”—cf. Leviticus 11:10). The writer of Proverbs observed in regard to animals: “A righteous man regardeth the life (nephesh) of his beast; but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel” (12:10).

    Now the question is will you repeat your false generalization that Christianity teaches that animals do not have souls ? Or will you, like a rather civilized person with some integrity, acknowedge that at least some Christians teach that their Holy Bible says animals have the nephesh - a soul ?

    Will you act like a civilized person who has received some education ? Or will you act like a uncivlized person given to religious bigotry, and ignore the correction made to your teaching ?
  4. Standard memberDasa
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    14 Dec '11 14:311 edit
    Originally posted by jaywill
    [quote] However they do instruct people to be civilized and respect life in all its forms and eat foods in the mode of goodness such as fruits, grains, milk, vegetables................which means it is a fore-gone conclusion that they will automatically be a vegetarian if they behave civilized.

    The goal of Vedic teachings is to teach people to love God - eople who should not have "bad qualitites" have them ?
    What went wrong with this world ?
    The Kali Yuga started 5000 years ago and that is the age of hypocrisy, cheating, deception, falsity, laziness, and ignorance.

    When the the world leaders are cheats and unqualified they will not educate the people properly and allow false knowledge to prevail.

    The Vedic teachings should be taught in every class room in every country - but they are not - and the falsity and ignorance of false science and false religion goes unchecked.

    Before that the world was civilized with the Vedic culture but with the on-set of the age of Kali Yuga all the people have no care for true religion or God.

    Just see for yourself that religion is allowing and defending the killing of animals.

    Before the Kali Yuga there were other Yugas all progressively more spiritual than the rest - but this Kali Yuga is the last Yuga before the annihilation of the cosmos and the world will only become more and more Godless up until then.

    Do not be concerned about the cosmos being annihilated - because it has happened millions of times before in the past and it is just the cycle of life and death...... (annihilation and re-creation that goes on eternally.)

    This universe is not the first universe - and this world is not the first world - and this society is not the first society............but because of the Kali Yuga this universe has a concentration and collection of all the dregs and worst of mankind all concentrated in this world at this time because it is the Kali Yuga.........being that the universe is at its last stage of its cycle.

    Anyone can have good qualities and be unblemished and love God......but they must follow the Vedic instructions perfectly and remove all their conditioning and falsity and ignorance that they have been taught by false science and false religion in the past.

    To do this they must give up living a materialistic and sinful life style and embrace true knowledge found in the Vedic literature and they must learn from a bonafide spiritual master.

    Don't worry if its late in life for starting........but it must be at least started because if they don't become self realized and qualified in this life - then they will take birth again and continue where they left off in their next life.

    It is almost impossible to develop true love of God and understand God in one life time.................but the journey back home to Godhead must at least start - and start with true religion and not false religion............and when the person is sincere and honest and embraces true knowledge found in true religion - then the Lord shall take care of his path even if it takes a few life times - and then at last he will finally after living trillions of lives of birth and death in this material world return back home to Godhead - his real eternal home full of happiness and bliss and knowledge and love..
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    14 Dec '11 14:53
    Originally posted by Dasa
    The Vedic teachings are perfect and are for the civilized man.

    The Vedic teachings do not teach vegetarianism.

    However they do instruct people to be civilized and respect life in all its forms and eat foods in the mode of goodness such as fruits, grains, milk, vegetables................which means it is a fore-gone conclusion that they will automatically ...[text shortened]... important.

    And without being spiritually aware - God consciousness will not develop at all.
    The goal of Vedic teachings is to teach people to love God - and one cannot love God if they are not civilized and have bad qualities and a blemished character.

    But is it really possible for anyone to eliminate all of their bad qualities and all of their blemishes?

    It seems that even when you think you've done a thorough scrubbing of your soul, you realize that all you've done is eliminate one layer of dirt, only to expose another layer - a layer even dirtier than the one before.

    Do you agree that this is the case - and if so, do you believe there's any real hope for any of us in pleasing or loving God?
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    14 Dec '11 15:51
    Originally posted by Dasa
    The Kali Yuga started 5000 years ago and that is the age of hypocrisy, cheating, deception, falsity, laziness, and ignorance.

    When the the world leaders are cheats and unqualified they will not educate the people properly and allow false knowledge to prevail.

    The Vedic teachings should be taught in every class room in every country - but they are not - an ...[text shortened]... k home to Godhead - his real eternal home full of happiness and bliss and knowledge and love..
    The Kali Yuga started 5000 years ago and that is the age of hypocrisy, cheating, deception, falsity, laziness, and ignorance.

    When the the world leaders are cheats and unqualified they will not educate the people properly and allow false knowledge to prevail.

    The Vedic teachings should be taught in every class room in every country - but they are not - and the falsity and ignorance of false science and false religion goes unchecked.


    You're worse than I am Dasa, So far you have not answered my specific questions.

    What happened to the world that people are uncivilized, with blemish, and not loving God ??

    You told me "when". You did not tell me WHAT HAPPENED. That is unless below you explain HOW it was that the "world leaders" had the capacity to intruduce laziness, cheating, deception, falsity, etc. into the world.

    Now you denigrade my Bible. But it gives me ANSWERS for these things.
    What are yours, if you're in the know and Christians are not ?



    Before that the world was civilized with the Vedic culture but with the on-set of the age of Kali Yuga all the people have no care for true religion or God.



    How is it that age of Kali Yuga had the power to enfluence people to not care for religion or God ?

    What was wrong with man that he could be changed by this new age ?


    Just see for yourself that religion is allowing and defending the killing of animals.



    That is beside my point now. You seem to be saying that human civilization started out right but then some people made it go wrong. Am I right ?

    How did they have the power to do that and where did that power come from?
    Something must have gone wrong with them.
    What went wrong with these enfluencial people ?

    Forget about animals for a moment and just answer me that.


    Before the Kali Yuga there were other Yugas all progressively more spiritual than the rest - but this Kali Yuga is the last Yuga before the annihilation of the cosmos and the world will only become more and more Godless up until then.



    Was there an inherent DEFECT in the Yugas?
    After a series of GOOD ones, WHY did a BAD ONE come on the scene ?


    Do not be concerned about the cosmos being annihilated - because it has happened millions of times before in the past and it is just the cycle of life and death...... (annihilation and re-creation that goes on eternally.)







    To do this they must give up living a materialistic and sinful life style and embrace true knowledge found in the Vedic literature and they must learn from a bonafide spiritual master.

    Don't worry if its late in life for starting........but it must be at least started because if they don't become self realized and qualified in this life - then they will take birth again and continue where they left off in their next life.

    It is almost impossible to develop true love of God and understand God in one life time.................but the journey back home to Godhead must at least start - and start with true religion and not false religion............and when the person is sincere and honest and embraces true knowledge found in true religion - then the Lord shall take care of his path even if it takes a few life times - and then at last he will finally after living trillions of lives of birth and death in this material world return back home to Godhead - his real eternal home full of happiness and bliss and knowledge and love..


    Why should there HAVE to be a journey BACK to begin with ?

    Why was there any issue of a DISTANCE between people and God to BEGIN WITH ?

    Are you saying that the journey BACK to Godhead will only invitably be followed by another degradation, departure from, falling away from, withdrawal from Godhead, AS HAS ETERNALLY OCCURED ?

    You cannot explain what the initial condition of life was - whether with Godhead or withdrawn from Godhead. You only say the CYCLE of WITH / AWAY has been repeating from eternity with no beginning.

    Why isn't the most normal state AWAY from Godhead in the WITHDRAWN position rather than in HARMONY , AT ONE with Godhead ?
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    14 Dec '11 15:561 edit
    Dasa,

    I do not intend to ask you questions repeatedly with no end. I only seek a few answers to see how you respond, IF you have so much to criticize about my own Christian faith.
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    14 Dec '11 16:273 edits
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    The goal of Vedic teachings is to teach people to love God - and one cannot love God if they are not civilized and have bad qualities and a blemished character.

    But is it really possible for anyone to eliminate all of their bad qualities and all of their blemishes?

    It seems that even when you think you've done a thorough scrubbing of your sou se - and if so, do you believe there's any real hope for any of us in pleasing or loving God?
    I'm concerned that Dasa won't notice my question now.

    So I will combine my question with Jaywill's questions.

    1. Is it really possible for anyone to truly eliminate all of their bad qualities and blemishes? Because it seems that whenever you remove a layer of dirt from your soul, all it does is expose an even dirtier layer lying beneath it.

    2. Why do you think that all of us have these many many layers of dirt on our souls to begin with? Why do we have to go through this whole purification process? Why did God allow us to be distant from him to begin with?
  9. Standard memberDasa
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    15 Dec '11 00:09
    Originally posted by jaywill
    The false religion of Christianity teach that animals do not have souls and so they can be killed.


    I don't know what Christianity you refer to. However, I have always thought that according to my Bible, animals have souls.

    Copied without permission from the Apologetics Press:

    [b]" In Genesis 1:20,24,30, God spoke of the nephes ...[text shortened]... ncivlized person given to religious bigotry, and ignore the correction made to your teaching ?
    You can quote a hundred verses if you wish - but at the end of the day most Christians believe that animals do not have souls like our human soul.

    That is the bottom line truth of most Christians

    And the Christians that believe that animals do have souls - believe that the animal,s soul is not the same as the human soul.

    This sought of confusion among the Christians can only mean that they have no clue what to believe - and if they do accept that the animal has a soul then it is less important than their own soul for some reason........and therefore can be killed.

    The soul in your body is no different than the soul in any living thing.

    The soul is an eternal part of God.....just like the sun ray is a part of the sun.

    The soul is indestructible and eternal and is the living principle.

    Christianity falsely teach that the soul can be destroyed.

    The soul can never be destroyed.

    At the end of the day Christianity falsely teach that God supports animal slaughter.

    Animal slaughter is sinful.....and must be given up if you wish to make any advancement in God consciousness.
  10. Standard memberDasa
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    15 Dec '11 00:29
    Originally posted by jaywill
    [quote] The Kali Yuga started 5000 years ago and that is the age of hypocrisy, cheating, deception, falsity, laziness, and ignorance.

    When the the world leaders are cheats and unqualified they will not educate the people properly and allow false knowledge to prevail.

    The Vedic teachings should be taught in every class room in every country - but the ...[text shortened]... from Godhead in the WITHDRAWN position rather than in HARMONY , AT ONE with Godhead ?
    Every soul resides in the the spiritual world, but because we have free-will even in the spiritual world.......some souls decide to be independent from God.

    When the soul decides to be independent from God then they come to this material world which is a world of happiness and suffering and birth and death.

    To return to God in their real home they simply have to behave Godly and civilized and be devoted to the Lord in friendship and love - and give up the things of this world.

    However they like being in this material world because they can enjoy the senses - and they actually believe they are very happy and independent - but this is an illusion.

    God fully knows that the soul cannot be independent from him.............just like the sun-ray cannot be independent from the sun.

    Our independence in this world is an illusion created by God to full-fill the material desires of the soul.

    They particularly enjoy being independent, and this makes them forget God and worship the things of this world namely .....adoration, fame, sex, wealth, importance etc.

    After dying and taking birth many times you would think they would give up the false attraction to this world of suffering, but because of ignorance and lust they continue to forget God and chase material enjoyment life after life.

    As soon as they give up their propensity to enjoy this false world of illusion...........and become devoted to God they can return to their real home at any time.......nothing is stopping them but themselves and their lust.

    This material creation will remain for eternity because their are always souls ready to dive into this material world of suffering......and try and be independent from God.

    However when the soul finally returns to the spiritual world - they never return to this place ever again because it remains as a bad dream in their consciousness.
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    15 Dec '11 00:39
    Originally posted by Dasa
    The Kali Yuga started 5000 years ago and that is the age of hypocrisy, cheating, deception, falsity, laziness, and ignorance.
    indeed, and you are proof of his points.
  12. Standard memberDasa
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    15 Dec '11 00:52
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    The goal of Vedic teachings is to teach people to love God - and one cannot love God if they are not civilized and have bad qualities and a blemished character.

    But is it really possible for anyone to eliminate all of their bad qualities and all of their blemishes?

    It seems that even when you think you've done a thorough scrubbing of your sou ...[text shortened]... se - and if so, do you believe there's any real hope for any of us in pleasing or loving God?
    Only by following true religion can a man become perfect and unblemished.

    Religion is one...........and it is eternal and is presented by the Vedanta Sutra found in the Vedic teachings which have been with mankind from the beginning of the creation.

    You cannot go on-line and expect to learn the spiritual life - because there are so many pseudo teachers posing as authority and presenting false representations of Vedic teachings posted up on the web.

    You must approach a bonafide spiritual master.

    The best place to start to learn true spirituality is to acquire the books of His Divine grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prubhupada........who as far as I am aware is the only bonafide spiritual master that has blessed us in current times.

    Books like.....Srimad Bhagavatam - Bhagavad Gita As It Is - and the many more that he has written.

    Do not get side tracked and read anything else but those that I have recommended because there are many pseudo Vedic teachers who are simply academics and not pure devotees.

    Academics will always speculate and will not deliver the true teachings of God.......they will mis-interprate and present their own personal understandings - and Vedic teaching cannot be translated like that.

    Srila Prubhupada is a pure devotee of God and his translations are the purest and are without speculation or compromise.
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    15 Dec '11 00:59
    vedas are another false religion.
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    15 Dec '11 14:294 edits
    Originally posted by Dasa
    You can quote a hundred verses if you wish - but at the end of the day most Christians believe that animals do not have souls like our human soul.

    That is the bottom line truth of most Christians

    And the Christians that believe that animals do have souls - believe that the animal,s soul is not the same as the human soul.

    This sought of confusion among ...[text shortened]... ter is sinful.....and must be given up if you wish to make any advancement in God consciousness.
    You can quote a hundred verses if you wish - but at the end of the day most Christians believe that animals do not have souls like our human soul.


    I don't have any statistics on that. However, I proved to you that the book which forms the basis of the Christian faith, the Holy Bible, SAID that animals had the nephesh (soul).

    If you say I can quote but you don't care, then you would probably not like such bigotry from me.

    I can say I don't care for your sacred books and most Indian mystics like you believe the wife should be burned alive on the funeral mound of thier dead husbands. Don't quote to me any scriptures, because I don't want to learn or change my view. You see ?

    Don't start now. No need to explain.

    Most Bhagata Veda mystics like you believe in burning alive the wife of their dead husbands on their husband's funeral mound. Explain nothing. I don't want to learn anything. I only care about my bottom line.

    Goodbye, woman burner.
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    15 Dec '11 14:541 edit
    Originally posted by Dasa
    Only by following true religion can a man become perfect and unblemished.

    Religion is one...........and it is eternal and is presented by the Vedanta Sutra found in the Vedic teachings which have been with mankind from the beginning of the creation.

    You cannot go on-line and expect to learn the spiritual life - because there are so many pseudo teachers p ...[text shortened]... re devotee of God and his translations are the purest and are without speculation or compromise.
    Swami Prubhupada has written books.

    But in order to write books, one has to become engaged in the material world. In order to instruct students, one has to become engaged in the material world.

    It seems to me that to detach oneself entirely from the material world, one would have to, at the very least, enter some sort of sense-deprivation tank and spend the rest of their life in it.

    Does this mean that even the Swami has not yet reached full union with God?

    Or is there some way to remain very much a part of the material world without being attached to it?
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