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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. 16 Aug '10 12:13
    Somebody would have to have extremely strong religious reasons to convince themselves that we did not evolve or the Earth is only a few thousand years old.

    But what if some people had extremely strong religious reasons to convince themselves that birds have boobs?
    How would they convince themselves of this and what arguments could they come up with to argues that birds do indeed have boobs?
    Can anyone come up with an example of just such an argument?
  2. Standard member avalanchethecat
    Not actually a cat
    16 Aug '10 12:21
    Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
    Somebody would have to have extremely strong religious reasons to convince themselves that we did not evolve or the Earth is only a few thousand years old.

    But what if some people had extremely strong religious reasons to convince themselves that birds have boobs?
    How would they convince themselves of this and what arguments could they come up wi ...[text shortened]... s that birds do indeed have boobs?
    Can anyone come up with an example of just such an argument?
    My bird's got boobs...
  3. 16 Aug '10 12:30
    Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
    Somebody would have to have extremely strong religious reasons to convince themselves that we did not evolve or the Earth is only a few thousand years old.

    But what if some people had extremely strong religious reasons to convince themselves that birds have boobs?
    How would they convince themselves of this and what arguments could they come up wi ...[text shortened]... s that birds do indeed have boobs?
    Can anyone come up with an example of just such an argument?
    Your folly is irony: you've convinced yourself that all delusion is religiously based, when you are Exhibit A for the defense.
  4. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    16 Aug '10 12:31
    Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
    Somebody would have to have extremely strong religious reasons to convince themselves that we did not evolve or the Earth is only a few thousand years old.

    But what if some people had extremely strong religious reasons to convince themselves that birds have boobs?
    How would they convince themselves of this and what arguments could they come up wi ...[text shortened]... s that birds do indeed have boobs?
    Can anyone come up with an example of just such an argument?
    Most religious people are not obsessed with how old the Earth is or whether or not evolution took place. Seems that atheists are. Most religious people try to do what God requires so that one day the reward promised to those of faith will be realised.

    Its not about having strong religious reasons. Its about faith. Here is an excerpt from Hebrews 11 that can probably help you understand:

    1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
    2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
    3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that thingswhich are seen were not made of things which do appear.
    4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which heobtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
    5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
    6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
    7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
  5. Standard member karoly aczel
    the Devil himself
    16 Aug '10 13:05
    I think you are going to have to direct your OP's to the christians in the future.
    Spirituality is way broader than what the christians make out, although , I must admit, there dont seem to be many other religous groups consinstently represented here. So in a way, you have a point(s)
  6. 16 Aug '10 16:41
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Most religious people are not obsessed with how old the Earth is or whether or not evolution took place. Seems that atheists are. Most religious people try to do what God requires so that one day the reward promised to those of faith will be realised.

    Its not about having strong religious reasons. Its about faith. Here is an excerpt from Hebrews 11 that c ...[text shortened]... se; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
    “…Most religious people are not obsessed with how old the Earth is or whether or not evolution took place….”

    Yes, I knew that. It is only a minority that are obsessed with such things.

    “…Here is an excerpt from Hebrews 11 that can probably help you understand:…”

    It doesn’t. I am afraid that kind of language is always just gobbledygook to me and only in part because I don’t see any arguments/reasoning there.
    I only understand either plain-English or scientific terminology; everything else is just nonsense to me.
  7. 16 Aug '10 16:45 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    I think you are going to have to direct your OP's to the christians in the future.
    Spirituality is way broader than what the christians make out, although , I must admit, there dont seem to be many other religous groups consinstently represented here. So in a way, you have a point(s)
    Perhaps this forum should be split into two forums:
    the “non-Christian spirituality” forum and the “Christians only” forum? ( -I say completely un-seriously ).
  8. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    16 Aug '10 18:04
    Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
    .. It doesn’t. I am afraid that kind of language is always just gobbledygook to me and only in part because I don’t see any arguments/reasoning there.
    .
    Then I have to tell you thats a personality flaw.

    Do you honestly think that everything in this world which has existed over many millions of years can be explained by arguments and reasoning?

    And if it can be, then do you think you/we know what the arguments and reasoning are?

    And if we dont know what the reasoning is, does that necessarily mean we should not believe in it?

    Faith .. its an important word that you should get to know ...
  9. 16 Aug '10 18:58 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Then I have to tell you thats a personality flaw.

    Do you honestly think that everything in this world which has existed over many millions of years can be explained by arguments and reasoning?

    And if it can be, then do you think you/we know what the arguments and reasoning are?

    And if we dont know what the reasoning is, does that necessarily mean we should not believe in it?

    Faith .. its an important word that you should get to know ...
    “…Do you honestly think that everything in this world which has existed over many millions of years can be explained by arguments and reasoning?...”

    Of course. Unless you don’t believe everything has a rational explanation? ( brute facts excluded )

    “…And if it can be, then do you think you/we know what the arguments and reasoning are?...”

    Some of them but not all. For example, we know that we evolved. But we don’t know the exact evolutionary path and the exact details of it.

    “…And if we dont know what the reasoning is, does that necessarily mean we should not believe in it?...”

    That depends on if there is empirical evidence for its existence.

    “…Faith .. its an important word that you should get to know ...”

    Only if I want to believe something in the absence of evidence and reason.
    -no thanks; I choice reason over self-delusion.
  10. Standard member karoly aczel
    the Devil himself
    16 Aug '10 22:50
    Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
    “…Most religious people are not obsessed with how old the Earth is or whether or not evolution took place….”

    Yes, I knew that. It is only a minority that are obsessed with such things.

    “…Here is an excerpt from Hebrews 11 that can probably help you understand:…”

    It doesn’t. I am afraid that kind of language is always just gobbledygook to me ...[text shortened]... derstand either plain-English or scientific terminology; everything else is just nonsense to me.
    When dealing with myths, legends they can only be expressed in parables or allegories.
    The thing with you scientific types is that you want definative answers to broad, not fully formulated topics. (I'm not saying this right)
    Answering questions about God cant just be done like 1+1=2
    There is a certain amount of inference suggested on the part of the questioner. In fact it is up to the questioner to have the intelligence to see that their audience is on the same wavelength , otherwise they may as well be preaching to a rock. (more later on this🙂 )
  11. 17 Aug '10 11:47 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    When dealing with myths, legends they can only be expressed in parables or allegories.
    The thing with you scientific types is that you want definative answers to broad, not fully formulated topics. (I'm not saying this right)
    Answering questions about God cant just be done like 1+1=2
    There is a certain amount of inference suggested on the part of ...[text shortened]... he same wavelength , otherwise they may as well be preaching to a rock. (more later on this🙂 )
    “…it is up to the questioner to have the intelligence to see that their audience is on the same wavelength…”

    I hope that “on the same wavelength” does not mean both the questioner and the audience thinking a lot of vague mystical crap that is totally unintelligible to any logical mind.
  12. 17 Aug '10 11:51
    Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
    Somebody would have to have extremely strong religious reasons to convince themselves that we did not evolve or the Earth is only a few thousand years old.

    But what if some people had extremely strong religious reasons to convince themselves that birds have boobs?
    How would they convince themselves of this and what arguments could they come up wi ...[text shortened]... s that birds do indeed have boobs?
    Can anyone come up with an example of just such an argument?
    “…Can anyone come up with an example of just such an argument?...”

    I have just thought of just such an argument:

    Birds must have boobs else how else would their young “suckle” ?

    And their young must “suckle” else why else would birds have boobs?
  13. 17 Aug '10 15:45
    Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
    “…Can anyone come up with an example of just such an argument?...”

    I have just thought of just such an argument:

    Birds must have boobs else how else would their young “suckle” ?

    And their young must “suckle” else why else would birds have boobs?
    You have entirely too much time on your hands. Are you currently incarcerated? Banished to your room by an overtaxed mum? Stuck at home with the pox?

    Whatever the case, since you've all this down time, try picking up a hobby... like chess, for instance.
  14. Donation bbarr
    Chief Justice
    17 Aug '10 18:24
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    ...try picking up a hobby... like chess, for instance.
    Zing!