1. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
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    23 Jan '11 22:55
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I am "rational", and I believe it; therefore you are incorrect. They are not MY Bible "stories" - incorrect again.

    "Your interpretation"; if correct, would, no doubt as we speak, be being adopted by conservative atheists all over the world...it isn't, and socialism is just that...another "ism". You strike me as being a somewhat socialist dogmatis ...[text shortened]... who uses their discard of their early faith, as platform to rail against Christianity.
    You clearly think you're rational, but you are sadly mistaken. Of that you may rest assured.

    My interpretation is not yet widely known. Or understood, apparently. The theists dismiss it out of hand, while the atheists, who are used to arguing against "traditional" interpretations of Christianity, don't seem to know quite what to make of it yet. Besides, it's still a work in progress. I keep refining the details as I go.

    As for the socialist label - socialism is a political term. My conception of the kingdom envisions the complete transcendence of politics and political 'isms', socialism included. You can see some of my posts to whodey in the 'Garden of Eden' thread for clarification on that issue.

    As for my alleged "early faith", I never had any. I never had much use for religion as a child. I never could buy into the shopworn mythology that has calcified onto Jesus' original core message of social justice. I have found, however, that if you take the time to scrape away all that ossified buildup, there are a few nuggets of wisdom to be gleaned from the whole thing.
  2. Joined
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    24 Jan '11 00:133 edits
    Cain was not allowed to be killed by any avenger. This was a period in human history in which man was to be ruled not by human government but by each man's individual conscience.

    The conscience having been awakened, God let mankind have this span of time to be ruled only by each individual's human conscience. Cain did not listen well to his. Murder of his brother was the result and a severe lack of remorse for doing so.

    Still God forbade human rectification of the wrong upon Cain by a similar killing. This was what some call the Dispensation of Conscience.

    In a real sense this was a time of Anarchy (in the positive sense) - no human government. This period became, however, intolerably evil. And it ended in God having to come in to judge the world in a flood. With Noah and seven other ark survivors God now has a new beginning. The age of Anarchy (in the positive sense) , the age of the government of individual conscience ended.

    Now, after the flood God permits man to rule man in human government. If all will not listen to their conscience then ideally those who DO will govern over those who have a problem. God now ordains human government and even capital punishment (Genesis 9:6) .
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    24 Jan '11 00:16
    Originally posted by whodey
    What are we to make of Cain? After all, the OT is rife with capital punishment for murder, yet Cain was shown mercy. Why?
    So was King David. P. S. What is the law concerning murder in Cain's day?
  4. Standard membergalveston75
    Texasman
    San Antonio Texas
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    24 Jan '11 23:48
    Originally posted by gambit3
    So was King David. P. S. What is the law concerning murder in Cain's day?
    From the Insight Book, Vol 1:
    During the continued campaign against the Ammonites, one of the saddest episodes of David’s life occurred. It all began when the king, upon observing from his rooftop beautiful Bath-sheba bathing herself, entertained wrong desires. (Jas 1:14, 15) After learning that her husband Uriah was off to war, David had the woman brought to his palace, where he had relations with her. In time the king was notified that she was pregnant. No doubt fearing that Bath-sheba would be publicly exposed and put to death for immoral conduct, David quickly sent word to the army that Uriah should report to him in Jerusalem, with the hope that Uriah would spend the night with his wife. But even though David got him drunk, Uriah refused to sleep with Bath-sheba. In desperation, David sent him back to the army with secret instructions to the commander Joab to have Uriah put in the front lines, where he would surely be killed. The scheme worked. Uriah died in battle, his widow observed the customary period of mourning, and then David married the widow before the townspeople were aware of her pregnancy.—2Sa 11:1-27.
    Jehovah was watching, however, and uncovered the whole reprehensible matter. If Jehovah had permitted the case involving David and Bath-sheba to be handled by human judges under the Mosaic Law, both of the wrongdoers would have been put to death, and of course, the unborn offspring of their adultery would have died with the mother. (De 5:18; 22:22) However, Jehovah dealt with the case himself and showed mercy to David because of the Kingdom covenant (2Sa 7:11-16), no doubt because David himself had shown mercy (1Sa 24:4-7; compare Jas 2:13) and because of repentance that God observed on the part of the wrongdoers. (Ps 51:1-4) But they did not escape all punishment. By the mouth of the prophet Nathan, Jehovah pronounced: “Here I am raising up against you calamity out of your own house.”—2Sa 12:1-12.
    And so it proved to be. The adulterine child born to Bath-sheba soon died, even though David fasted and mourned over the sick child for seven days. (2Sa 12:15-23) Then David’s firstborn son Amnon raped his own half sister Tamar, and he was subsequently murdered by her brother, to the grief of his father. (2Sa 13:1-33) Later, Absalom, the third and beloved son of David, not only attempted to usurp the throne but openly despised and publicly disgraced his father by having relations with David’s concubines. (2Sa 15:1–16:22) Finally, the humiliation reached its peak when civil war plunged the country into a struggle of son against father, ending in Absalom’s death, contrary to the wishes of David and much to his grief. (2Sa 17:1–18:33) During his flight from Absalom, David composed Psalm 3, in which he says, “Salvation belongs to Jehovah.”—Ps 3:8.
    But for all his faults and gross sins, David always showed the right heart condition by repenting and begging Jehovah’s forgiveness. This was demonstrated in the affair involving Bath-sheba, after which David wrote Psalm 51, stating, “With error I was brought forth . . . in sin my mother conceived me.” (Ps 51:5) Another instance when David humbly confessed his sins was when Satan incited him to take a census of the men qualified for the military forces.—2Sa 24:1-17; 1Ch 21:1-17; 27:24


    2Sa 7:11-16. The covenent that was promised here is that the Messiah would come thru the line of David. If God had allowed David to be put to death, this scripture would not have been fulfilled.
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    25 Jan '11 04:12
    Originally posted by gambit3
    So was King David. P. S. What is the law concerning murder in Cain's day?
    I had thought of this as well. However, king David was given horrible "choices" that arguably were worse than losing his life. As it was he had to witness the death of his sons. I suspect he would have preferred death to have visited him instead.
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    25 Jan '11 05:44
    Originally posted by whodey
    I had thought of this as well. However, king David was given horrible "choices" that arguably were worse than losing his life. As it was he had to witness the death of his sons. I suspect he would have preferred death to have visited him instead.
    It is my doctrine that David may have forfeited his physical life if he had not acknowledged his sin.
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    29 Jan '11 00:02
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Having sex with ones sister is then alright today, according to the bible, if one's using protection from pregnancy?
    ============================
    Having sex with ones sister is then alright today, according to the bible, if one's using protection from pregnancy?
    ==============================


    It might help you to read the 18th chapter of Leviticus to see what the law required.
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