Calling Impartial Atheists

Originally posted by Rajk999
Exactly. But CB makes no effort to explain why he interprets the passage that way and appears surprised at any other interpretation

I have many times, you just wish to ignore my reasons.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I have many times, you just wish to ignore my reasons.

Ok i will read it over and get back to you.

Originally posted by JS357
"The question : Is the writer saying something positive about those who fall away or something negative? "

I don't think that is the bone of contention. I think it is whether there are or can be any such enlightened people who actually fall away and thus cause God/Jesus such irritation. It is a variation on the OSAS dispute.

I think the writer of the ori ...[text shortened]... d ambiguous.

Edit, of course under CB's interpretation the passage is an unnecessary warning.

Here is the passage and a bit more from the writer of Hebrews:

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened,
and have tasted of the heavenly gift,
and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God,
and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;
seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh,
and put him to an open shame.

For the earth which drinketh in the rain
that cometh oft upon it,
and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed,
receiveth blessing from God:
But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected,
and is nigh unto cursing;
whose end is to be burned.
(Hebrews 6:4-8 KJV)

The writer says:
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened,
.......
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;

This means that it is impossible, IF an enlightened Christian falls away, from them to be renewed

CBs take on it is using to word impossible to mean that it is impossible for an enlightened Christian to fall away. But that clearly is incorrect. He ignores the word IF and that changes the meaning.

The writer continues and says the same thing using the analogy [used many times in the Bible by other writers], of one group bearing fruit and another group bearing nothing and destined for destruction.

Group 1 receives blessing from God and is fruitful.
Group 2 brings nothing but evil and sin [briars and thorns] and will be destroyed.

This is in line with those who fall away and receives no forgiveness, as in 1 Cor 3 .. again a group that defiles themselves destined to by destroyed.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I have many times, you just wish to ignore my reasons.

You said this in part:

He 6:6 “and then have fallen away it is impossible to renew them again to repentance.” This verse reflects the permanence of salvation that is spoken of in so many other places in the Epistles. This verse is not about losing salvation and not being able to regain it, although that is what many people think. If this verse were about losing one’s salvation, then we need to be clear about what it is saying, because it would be saying that if a saved person sins and loses his salvation, he cannot be forgiven and be saved again because that is “impossible.”

You are falling victim to a devious deception practiced by many pastors, preachers and so called scholars. That is that they substitute another word for the key word or phrase used in the bible.

Here in Hebrews the writer uses

FALL AWAY

you substitute the word

SIN

And you do that throughout your analysis. Sin and fall away are two different things.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I would draw parallel with 2 Timothy 2:12:

'If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us.'

I think the meaning is quite clear.

Sorry I missed your post and yes, the Timothy quote is an appropriate parallel. Thanks

Originally posted by checkbaiter
That you seek council from atheists speaks volumes about yourself.

That you cannot see his reason for an impartial opinion speaks volumes about you.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Can you read this and give me a simple answer:

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)

It is ambiguous but my money is on
"If you have experienced all the goodies then you have no excuse."

Now that could be taken as a threat to Believers and/or a promise to non-Believers.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
It is ambiguous but my money is on
"If you have experienced all the goodies then you have no excuse."

Now that could be taken as a threat to Believers and/or a promise to non-Believers.

Thanks for your input and I agree with your goodies comment. These guys have a distinct advantage who were given all these things and then they fell away. Note that to fall away is not just commit sins but abandon God and Jesus Christ and the teachings.

Plus you make an interesting additional point. Just as God will be unforgiving toward these types who had no excuse, God would be more forgiving to those who have an excuse. God is not unjust and unfair. Im pretty sure I can show [from the Bible] that forgiveness would be easier to come by to these who were given nothing.

So from the comments of an impartial group of both atheists and Christians it appears that Checkbaiter's interpretation is not correct.

Originally posted by Rajk999
So from the comments of an impartial group of both atheists and Christians it appears that Checkbaiter's interpretation is not correct.

So will you be issuing a creed and declaring a heresy?

Originally posted by JS357
So will you be issuing a creed and declaring a heresy?

Yep 😀

Originally posted by Rajk999
Atheist by definition are free from institutional and religious bias.

I suspect that isn't true.

Atheists are full of institutional and religious bias.

Originally posted by apathist
Atheists are full of institutional and religious bias.

You'll need to explain that one.

Originally posted by josephw
On the contrary, atheists are extremely religious. Can you imagine how much faith is required to believe there is no God?

Think about it.

Your core point is correct, but you overstate into absurdity. Maybe you should try hosting a talk radio station.