Calling out Mt. Ivanhoe...

Originally posted by Nemesio
I did. You ignored them.

I did not. All the answers are in that very thread.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Verb: infer (inferred,inferring) in'fur
Reason by deduction; establish by deduction
- deduce, deduct, derive

Draw from specific cases for more general cases
- generalize, generalise [Brit], extrapolate

Conclude by reasoning; in logic
- deduce

Guess correctly; solve by guessing
- guess

Believe to be the case
- understand
Derived forms: ...[text shortened]... **********************************************

I infer the resemblance ? Can you elaborate ?

Oh grow up ivanhoe, you know full well that my intention was to suggest your claim to resemblance was not one proven by supporting evidence, but by personal conjecture.

Originally posted by Nemesio
The WolfPack (TM), of course!

I think it would be better if you would speak for yourself in the future. It will avoid misunderstandings.

Originally posted by Starrman
Oh grow up ivanhoe, you know full well that my intention was to suggest your claim to resemblance was not one proven by supporting evidence, but by personal conjecture.

Then you must have missed that evidence.

... but maybe you can give the quotes which prove that claim of yours.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
I did not. All the answers are in that very thread.

Okay.

Where in it do you discuss the means by which bbarr determines what
is and is not an act of mercy as compared with that which the Nazi's
determine is an act of mercy?

Where in it do you discuss the means by which bbarr determines who
has the right to enact these acts of mercy as compared with that which
the Nazi's determine has the right to enact the same?

Nemesio

It seems His Majesty has left the defense to his sidekicks again.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Then you must have missed that evidence.

... but maybe you can give the quotes which prove that claim of yours.

What? You want me to provide evidence to support claims to a lack of evidence from you? What world do you live in?

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Why is it you choose such a dominating and forcing approach when you are cornered ? As I said earlier I present historic facts which prove the resemblance between your ideas and the Nazis' regarding the killing of certain disabled people.

What proposition do you have in mind ? I do not know what you are trying to prove. Since when is the issue in the th y came ... " your stance on euthanasia as such ? The thread is about killing disabled people.

I'm giving you an opportunity, wihtout distraction from tangential issues, to show everybody that my views are similar to the Nazis. I was being generous by giving you the opportunity to make your case using any normative proposition about euthanasia. If your claims are limited to the similarity betwen respective views on the treatment of the disabled, then present a proposition related to that topic that meets the above criteria.

The rationale for the criteria is as follows:

1) The proposition should be normative (i.e., it should refer to what is obligatory, permissible or wrong) because purely descriptive claims are irrelevant to your rhetorical goal. That both the Nazis and I beleive that, as a matter of fact, some disabled folk have been euthanized doesn't entail anything about whether our respective beliefs about how disabled people should be treated are simlar.

2) This should be obvious, since it is a necessary condition for your claims about respective similarity of views to be correct that the Nazis and I both endorse at least one identical proposition.

3) You need to show that the proposition the Nazis and I endorse is false (or at least unjustified), lest the proposition in question fail to support your general argument. I take your general argument to be of the following form: Nazis have monstrous beliefs about the treatment of the disabled. Bbarr's beliefs are similar to the Nazis'. Hence, bbarr's beliefs about the treatment of the disabled are also monstrous. Yet, if the proposition mutually endorsed by the Nazis and me is, in fact, true, then there would be no reason to grant the first premise of your argument. if all you can do is show that there is some proposition mutually endorsed by the Nazis and me, without providing any reason to think that the proposition in question is false, then you will have merely succeeded in showing that I and the Nazis had a justified belief in common.

So, again, what is the proposition that the Nazis and I both endorse?

Originally posted by ivanhoe
It seems His Majesty has left the defense to his sidekicks again.

You are either stupid or an evil little man: he's offered the defence so
many times that even I understand it. That you persist in your obtuseness
or conniving games makes it a mystery why anyone ever addresses you
at all.

But, that having been said, you once again avoid/ignore my questions
(not to mention bbarr's at the beginning of this thread).

What a shock!

Nemesio

Originally posted by bbarr
I'm giving you an opportunity, without distraction from tangential issues, to show everybody that my views are similar to the Nazis.

Okay. No more distractions from me. I withdraw everything I've said
in this thread in order to cede the floor to Ivanhoe that he might in fact
show us that your views are similar to the Nazis.

My apologies.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
Okay.

Where in it do you discuss the means by which bbarr determines what
is and is not an act of mercy as compared with that which the Nazi's
determine is an act of mercy?

Where in it do you discuss the means by which bbarr determines who
has the right to enact these acts of mercy as compared with that which
the Nazi's determine has the right to enact the same?

Nemesio

Nemesio: "Where in it do you discuss the means by which bbarr determines what is and is not an act of mercy as compared with that which the Nazi's determine is an act of mercy?"

They are essentially the same. I have not been able to detect any fundamental differences. Have you ?[/b]

Nemesio: "Where in it do you discuss the means by which bbarr determines who has the right to enact these acts of mercy as compared with that which the Nazi's determine has the right to enact the same?

No differences here either. The doctors perform the killing in both situations.

Originally posted by Starrman
What? You want me to provide evidence to support claims to a lack of evidence from you? What world do you live in?

... a lack of evidence ... I see .... It is so convenient to state this.

You can always continue to claim there isn't enough evidence. How much is enough ? Of course you will be the judge of that, right ?

Originally posted by ivanhoe
They are essentially the same. I have not been able to detect any fundamental differences. Have you ?

As I said, for the joint reason of not distracting from bbarr's interest in
this thread and to avoid giving you the impression that I am part of
his 'gang,' I'm going to withdraw from discussion for now and let you
and bbarr discuss it in plain sight so that we might draw conclusions of
our own from the fruits of the deliberation.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
The WolfPack (TM), of course!

Who's in the Wolfpack these days?

Originally posted by ivanhoe
... a lack of evidence ... I see .... It is so convenient to state this.

You can always continue to claim there isn't enough evidence. How much is enough ? Of course you will be the judge of that, right ?

Proofs (if we can even call them that) of opinion rely on the reciprocation of belief between parties. You can't just state an opinion and hold that opinion is true when it isn't backed by either deductive reasoning or democratic agreement. Nobody yet agrees that you've shown a connection, until at least one person does you haven't proved anything.

Perhaps if you actually laid out your argument as Bbarr has requested you'd have something. Oh wait, that's never going to happen is it? That would mean you actually might have to lay out premises and reach a conclusion for once...