1. Joined
    30 Sep '12
    Moves
    731
    07 Sep '14 18:50
    I was just reading a webpage which quoted Howard Stern (Jewish) at the funeral for Joan Rivers (Jewish), mentioning deceased Gentile Johnny Carson:

    "Joan is somewhere chasing Johnny Carson with a baseball bat," a reference to the long-running and never-resolved feud between the two show business legends.

    In grade school my Jewish buddy asked me, "Do you Christians really think we Jews go to Hell?"

    I was hesitant to answer, but I knew that our church stressed that "the only way to the Father is through the Son," so I told him that any Jew who hears the Gospel message and rejects it is headed to Hell.

    He was disgusted by my answer, but I felt like I had given him The Truth as I understood it at the time. (It wasn't many years after that when I rejected all religions.)

    Does it work the other way? Do Jews think Christians blew their chance to get to Heaven by worshiping the man Jesus as if he were a deity? Do Jews believe there is a Hell waiting for non-Jews?
  2. Maryland
    Joined
    10 Jun '05
    Moves
    110625
    07 Sep '14 23:11
    Much ado about nothing!
  3. SubscriberSuzianne
    Misfit Queen
    Isle of Misfit Toys
    Joined
    08 Aug '03
    Moves
    35531
    08 Sep '14 01:48
    Originally posted by Paul Dirac II
    I was just reading a webpage which quoted Howard Stern (Jewish) at the funeral for Joan Rivers (Jewish), mentioning deceased Gentile Johnny Carson:

    "Joan is somewhere chasing Johnny Carson with a baseball bat," a reference to the long-running and never-resolved feud between the two show business legends.

    In grade school my Jewish buddy ask ...[text shortened]... iping the man Jesus as if he were a deity? Do Jews believe there is a Hell waiting for non-Jews?
    I think you should probably be asking this of Jews. As a Christian, I have NO idea how they feel about Christians, or even their idea of us based on Biblical grounds.

    I'm not sure how many Jews there may be here, though.
  4. Joined
    30 Sep '12
    Moves
    731
    08 Sep '14 04:53
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    I'm not sure how many Jews there may be here, though.
    I don't know either.


    I will note that there were many prominent Jewish chess players in the 1800s and 1900s, certainly.
  5. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    slatington, pa, usa
    Joined
    28 Dec '04
    Moves
    52619
    08 Sep '14 13:202 edits
    Originally posted by Paul Dirac II
    I was just reading a webpage which quoted Howard Stern (Jewish) at the funeral for Joan Rivers (Jewish), mentioning deceased Gentile Johnny Carson:

    "Joan is somewhere chasing Johnny Carson with a baseball bat," a reference to the long-running and never-resolved feud between the two show business legends.

    In grade school my Jewish buddy ask ...[text shortened]... iping the man Jesus as if he were a deity? Do Jews believe there is a Hell waiting for non-Jews?
    The only feud they had was when Joan announced to Carsen she was getting her own show. He hung up on her and never spoke to her again. Before that, she had been his alternate talk show host for years. Dozens of times she sat in his chair with no problems. As soon as she found out she was getting ahead in that talk show world, Carsen dropped her like a hot rock.

    That whole bit about Jews vs Christians getting to heaven is just so much BS since there IS no heaven, no bible god and certainly no original sin and all that cockamamie BS made up so many thousands of years ago.

    When will people get it through their heads they have been thoroughly and completely duped, programmed into war for eternity, various religions at each other's throats from time immemorial.

    When will it dawn on people all this strife is 100% man made and the solution is also 100% in the capability of mankind to correct.

    There doesn't HAVE to be war between religions. The fact there is tells me quite clearly there is no deity involved, no deity inspired ANY of this BS going on for thousands of years.

    Right now Christians are killing hindu's in India and other parts of the world and Muslims are certainly as barbaric a religion as has ever come down the pike.

    You all tout how religions bring Peace. So how is that working out for you, eh?

    All your little religions are like people in their corner of the room loudly portraying themselves as the ONE true faith while the other corners of the room are going NAY NAY and starting a war to prove it.

    The whole thing is disgusting to me, a blight on the human race.

    I want freedom FROM religion. I want to live in a place where there are no religious sects like Christianity or Muslims or Hindu's at each others throats.

    These are all just sects, politically powerful sects with the upper ranks having nothing more on their minds then revenge for the latest round of religious based violence.

    The idea of actually welcoming other points of view has been lost for several thousand years and will NEVER happen till all this religious bases strife has ended.

    Of course the religious sects like Christianity will say. not all wars are religious but right now there is only one stealth war going on that is NOT religious, the Russians taking over Ukraine. ALL the other strife is due to religious factions fighting each other RIGHT NOW, not some Crusade from a thousand years ago.
  6. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
    Fort Gordon
    Joined
    24 Jan '11
    Moves
    12695
    08 Sep '14 22:381 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    The only feud they had was when Joan announced to Carsen she was getting her own show. He hung up on her and never spoke to her again. Before that, she had been his alternate talk show host for years. Dozens of times she sat in his chair with no problems. As soon as she found out she was getting ahead in that talk show world, Carsen dropped her like a hot r ...[text shortened]... to religious factions fighting each other RIGHT NOW, not some Crusade from a thousand years ago.
    Wars and hatred between races, religions, etc. is not something that Christians believe is inspired by God. We believe holy men of God were inspired by God to tell us about these things that will happen before He makes things new. Knowing what will happen in the future can give us the incentive to do what is right in God's sight.
  7. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    slatington, pa, usa
    Joined
    28 Dec '04
    Moves
    52619
    09 Sep '14 13:25
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Wars and hatred between races, religions, etc. is not something that Christians believe is inspired by God. We believe holy men of God were inspired by God to tell us about these things that will happen before He makes things new. Knowing what will happen in the future can give us the incentive to do what is right in God's sight.
    So your god NEVER told anyone to slaughter whole villages or ravage the women? That never happened in the bible?
  8. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
    Fort Gordon
    Joined
    24 Jan '11
    Moves
    12695
    09 Sep '14 20:032 edits
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    So your god NEVER told anyone to slaughter whole villages or ravage the women? That never happened in the bible?
    Correct. You are believing in false atheist propaganda.

    How could a loving God command the destruction of all those "innocent" people? The argument sounds good, but it is utterly false. The unstated assumption is that the people who God ordered destroyed were morally equivalent to the Jews, who replaced them. However, this is what the Bible says about the people who were destroyed:

    "It is not for your righteousness or for the uprightness of your heart that you are going to possess their land, but it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD your God is driving them out before you, in order to confirm the oath which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
    (Deuteronomy 9:5)

    Okay, how "wicked" could those people have been? How about killing their own sons and daughters by burning them in sacrifices to their gods:

    "You shall not behave thus toward the LORD your God, for every abominable act which the LORD hates they have done for their gods; for they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods.
    (Deuteronomy 12:31)

    The wickedness of these people is confirmed in other verses of the Bible. So we see that these people are not quite as innocent as the atheists would like you to believe. The fact that these people practiced child sacrifice is also confirmed in the secular writings of the Greeks. Then again, maybe those atheists believe that killing your children is not all bad. After all, killing viable pre-born babies is legal in this country (it's called a choice, a.k.a. abortion). For these reasons (and others), God ordered the destruction of the peoples whom the Israelites dispossessed.

    Did God kill any innocent people along with the evil ones? When God was about to destroy the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, Abraham asked God if He would destroy the cities if there were 50 righteous people in them.6 God said no. Then Abraham asked the same question if there were 45 righteous people. Every time he dropped the number and got the same answer. The fact is that God would not have destroyed those cities if there were any righteous people in them. The few righteous who were in those cities He warned ahead of time to get out. So, God does not destroy the righteous along with the evil.

    God's judgment of people groups found in the Old Testament actually pales in comparison to the judgment He will render at the end of time. According to the New Testament Book of Revelation, God will judge and kill billions of people who reject Him when Jesus returns, including 200 million killed in a single battle. Such large armies have never existed in the history of mankind until the last 100 years, suggesting the this judgment could come at any time.

    What about children?

    In some instances, God ordered the killing of entire populations, presumably including the killing of babies and children. Isn't God unrighteous in killing these innocent little ones? First of all, the Bible indicates that all people are sinners, including babies, and worthy of judgment. However, the Bible also indicates that children are incapable of making moral choices, so that they are automatically rewarded with heaven. So, in having babies killed, God is actually doing them a favor, since, if they had grown up opposed to God, they would have gone to hell.

    If God were to have spared some of the children, it would have been difficult to determine the cutoff age. A one-year old is probably still relatively uncorrupted by his parents, but what about a two-year old? I have personally seen a number of spoiled two-year olds who had already been corrupted by their parents. In a society where moral corruption abounds, the corruption of the children would be early and severe. God was very clear that he did not want the sons and daughters of the corrupted peoples to marry the sons and daughters of the Israelites to lead them astray through false worship. Even so, there are many examples of the Israelites being polluted in their worship by the surrounding peoples.

    Conclusion

    In order to maintain His righteousness, God must judge sin - everything that goes against His character. If God let everyone into heaven, then He would have to allow in people such as Stalin and Hitler. Obviously, heaven would not be a good place to be with the likes of those people there. Therefore, God's righteousness requires the judgment of all sin. Only those people who agree with God and are willing to allow themselves to be changed into sinless beings can enter into heaven.

    http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/killergod.html
  9. Joined
    31 Jan '06
    Moves
    2597
    10 Sep '14 04:36
    Paul Dirac,
    How are you doing?

    King James Version
    ==============
    John 3: 18
    He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    Romans 3: 9
    What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

    Galatians 3: 20
    But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

    Romans 3: 23
    For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
  10. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    slatington, pa, usa
    Joined
    28 Dec '04
    Moves
    52619
    10 Sep '14 08:01
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Correct. You are believing in false atheist propaganda.

    [b]How could a loving God command the destruction of all those "innocent" people? The argument sounds good, but it is utterly false.
    The unstated assumption is that the people who God ordered destroyed were morally equivalent to the Jews, who replaced them. However, this is what the Bible say ...[text shortened]... sinless beings can enter into heaven.

    http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/killergod.html
    So your god hated all the sacrificial killing of women and children and therefore issued an edict to kill them off.

    Ok, why then did not your god do something like that when 100 MILLION were killed in the 20th century pogroms?

    It couldn't be perhaps that the stories you talk about are just that: Stories, made up by men?

    Sounds good to me.
  11. SubscriberFMF
    Main Poster
    This Thread
    Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    29835
    10 Sep '14 08:24
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    You are believing in false atheist propaganda.
    Surely the "propaganda" is that of the ancient Hebrews.

    The Hebrews wrote books about themselves in which ~ lo and behold ~ they were their own God figure's 'chosen people', and ~ lo and behold ~ their enemies were 'wicked' people, and ~ lo and behold ~ their enemies' God figures were 'false idols', unlike their own God.
  12. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
    Fort Gordon
    Joined
    24 Jan '11
    Moves
    12695
    10 Sep '14 08:503 edits
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    The only feud they had was when Joan announced to Carsen she was getting her own show. He hung up on her and never spoke to her again. Before that, she had been his alternate talk show host for years. Dozens of times she sat in his chair with no problems. As soon as she found out she was getting ahead in that talk show world, Carsen dropped her like a hot r ...[text shortened]... to religious factions fighting each other RIGHT NOW, not some Crusade from a thousand years ago.
    Violence Against Christians In India

    Anti-Christian violence in India refers to religiously-motivated violence against Christians in India, usually perpetrated by Hindu nationalists.The acts of violence include arson of churches, re-conversion of Christians to Hinduism by force and threats of physical violence, distribution of threatening literature, burning of Bibles, raping of nuns, murder of Christian priests and destruction of Christian schools, colleges, and cemeteries. Violence against Christians has been seen by Human Rights organization as a tactic used to meet political ends. According to a Human rights Watch report that was published in September 1999, the number of incidents of anti-Christian violence rose in the months following the victory of the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) in March 1998.

    From 1964 to 1996, at least 38 incidents of violence against Christians were reported. In 1997, 24 such incidents were reported. Since 1998, Christians in India have faced a wave of violence. In 1998 alone, 90 incidents were reported.

    The Sangh Parivar and related organisations have stated that the violence is an expression of "spontaneous anger" of "vanvasis" against conversion activities undertaken by missionaries.

    In June 2000, four churches around India were bombed. In Andhra Pradesh, church graves were desecrated. A church in Maharashtra was ransacked. In September 2008, two churches were partly damaged in Kerala.

    Muslims in India who convert to Christianity have frequently been subjected to intolerance, harassment, intimidation, and attacks by Muslims. In Jammu and Kashmir, the only Indian state with a Muslim majority, a Christian convert and missionary, Bashir Tantray, was killed, allegedly by militant Islamists in 2006.

    In its annual human rights reports for 1999, the United States Department of State criticised India for "increasing societal violence against Christians."


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Christian_violence_in_India

    Attacks on Christians Spike as Hindu Nationalists Set to Take Control of India
    11:30AM EDT 4/29/2014 International Christian Concern's India Correspondent

    As a matter of concern, Andhra Pradesh, a state located on India's eastern coastline, has seen the highest number of attacks (41) on Christians in India in 2013. Andhra Pradesh is believed to have the highest Christian population in India, yet there seems to be an orchestrated hate campaign by Hindu radical groups, including Sangh Parivar and RSS, being carried out across the state. Brutal attacks on the Christian leaders falsely accused of forcible conversion seemed to increase with the approach of the general elections.


    http://www.charismanews.com/world/43655-attacks-on-christians-spike-as-hindu-nationalists-set-to-take-control-of-india

    DO CHRISTIANS HAVE A RIGHT TO DEFEND THEMSELVES WITHOUT BEING CALLED TERRORISTS?

    “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.

    (Matthew 24:4)
  13. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
    Fort Gordon
    Joined
    24 Jan '11
    Moves
    12695
    10 Sep '14 08:57
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    So your god hated all the sacrificial killing of women and children and therefore issued an edict to kill them off.

    Ok, why then did not your god do something like that when 100 MILLION were killed in the 20th century pogroms?

    It couldn't be perhaps that the stories you talk about are just that: Stories, made up by men?

    Sounds good to me.
    How do you know my God hasn't done something?
  14. Joined
    26 Feb '09
    Moves
    1637
    11 Sep '14 03:30
    Originally posted by Paul Dirac II
    I was just reading a webpage which quoted Howard Stern (Jewish) at the funeral for Joan Rivers (Jewish), mentioning deceased Gentile Johnny Carson:

    "Joan is somewhere chasing Johnny Carson with a baseball bat," a reference to the long-running and never-resolved feud between the two show business legends.

    In grade school my Jewish buddy ask ...[text shortened]... iping the man Jesus as if he were a deity? Do Jews believe there is a Hell waiting for non-Jews?
    I have a question for you. As God never changes, and as Jesus stated "no one can go to the Father, but through me" . How was it possible, for the Jews of the Old Testament, to talk to God?
Back to Top