1. Subscriberdivegeester
    the altruistic one
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    21 Oct '10 06:56
    Laws are only absolutes if there is no higher law e.g the law* of gravity is only seen in action if there is no higher force opposing that law.

    E.g when a father lifts his baby from it's cot, the law of gravity is not broken, it is merely temporarily superseded by the strength of the parent. However to a being not familiar with the concept of a "parent" the act would appear as though a law had been broken.

    To assume that what may be viewed as "miracles" is either impossible or against the "laws" of physics, is restricting ourselves from a universe of possibilities and exploration both temporal and spiritual.



    *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_law_of_universal_gravitation
  2. Joined
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    21 Oct '10 09:501 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Laws are only absolutes if there is no higher law e.g the law* of gravity is only seen in action if there is no higher force opposing that law.

    E.g when a father lifts his baby from it's cot, the law of gravity is not broken, it is merely temporarily superseded by the strength of the parent. However to a being not familiar with the concept of a "pa nd spiritual.



    *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_law_of_universal_gravitation
    Not sure what you are trying to say here. Laws cannot be broken. If there is something that appears to be a miracle because of something undiscovered in physics, then it just means that there are some unknown laws (which also cannot be broken). We just have yet to discover them. 😛
  3. Standard memberPalynka
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    21 Oct '10 09:54
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Laws are only absolutes if there is no higher law e.g the law* of gravity is only seen in action if there is no higher force opposing that law.

    E.g when a father lifts his baby from it's cot, the law of gravity is not broken, it is merely temporarily superseded by the strength of the parent. However to a being not familiar with the concept of a "pa ...[text shortened]... nd spiritual.



    *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_law_of_universal_gravitation
    Is that a reason to believe miracles can happen or that supposed miracles are simply not that miraculous?

    I think most atheists would agree that perceived miracles are actually natural phenomena being misinterpreted (or imagined) by the viewer.

    I may be missing your point, though, sorry.
  4. Subscriberduecer
    anybody seen my
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    21 Oct '10 10:16
    laws are meant to broken😠

    http://www.foxcreekleather.com/images/brando.jpg
  5. Cape Town
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    21 Oct '10 10:28
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Laws are only absolutes if there is no higher law e.g the law* of gravity is only seen in action if there is no higher force opposing that law.
    In line with what lausey has said, laws cannot be broken by definition. The definition of "Law" is "a rule that is never violated". If a violation occurs then what we thought was a law is in fact not a law.

    E.g when a father lifts his baby from it's cot, the law of gravity is not broken, it is merely temporarily superseded by the strength of the parent. However to a being not familiar with the concept of a "parent" the act would appear as though a law had been broken.
    I disagree with your interpretation here. The law of gravity only states that a force will be applied. It does not in any way require actual movement. The laws of motion require movement based on the total force applied. When a father lifts his baby from its cot, all the laws are in action and are seen to operate to perfection.

    For some people, a miracle does not necessarily violate the laws of physics. It may be something improbable (whether this violates the laws of physics is up for discussion), or merely something beneficial.

    What I tend to object to is the term 'supernatural' which is used in an attempt to avoid being challenged by the laws of physics. But it is actually somewhat incoherent once you think about it. For some people, a miracle is supernatural (and thus incoherent).
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    21 Oct '10 16:00
    right...gravity is a force..the force exerted by the father simply overcomes that force of gravity. If the baby was not "lifted" when the force was applied...that would have broken a"law"
  7. Joined
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    22 Oct '10 06:30
    In Sweden the weather will be snowy, the winter is coming, and the roads will be icy and slippery.

    I would love to see a commersial ad, something like this:

    "Holy tires for sale!
    Blessed by the bishop for higher friction!
    Garanteed to prevent accidents for baptized drivers!"

    And this would be possible if miracles are possible. They are not possible according to known science. Therefore we can safely laugh at the proposed ad above.
  8. Joined
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    23 Oct '10 00:08
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    In Sweden the weather will be snowy, the winter is coming, and the roads will be icy and slippery.

    I would love to see a commersial ad, something like this:

    "Holy tires for sale!
    Blessed by the bishop for higher friction!
    Garanteed to prevent accidents for baptized drivers!"

    And this would be possible if miracles are possible. They are not possible according to known science. Therefore we can safely laugh at the proposed ad above.
    http://www.spirituality.com/dt/toc_sh.jhtml

    100 pages of them for you all to read
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    23 Oct '10 03:41
    Chapter 18

    Fruitage


    These are the first 12 testimonies, from this wonderful book, that many would call a miracle.

    RHEUMATISM HEALED
    ASTIGMATISM AND HERNIA HEALED
    SUBSTANCE OF LUNGS RESTORED
    FIBROID TUMOR HEALED IN A FEW DAYS
    SPINAL TROUBLE AND INDIGESTION HEALED
    A CASE OF MENTAL SURGERY
    CATARACT QUICKLY CURED
    VALVULAR HEART DISEASE HEALED
    THE TRUE PHYSICIAN FOUND
    CANCER AND CONSUMPTION HEALED
    A REMARKABLE CASE
    INTENSE SUFFERING OVERCOME
  10. Joined
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    23 Oct '10 06:13
    Originally posted by tacoandlettuce
    http://www.spirituality.com/dt/toc_sh.jhtml

    100 pages of them for you all to read
    You mean, seriously, that tires can be made to do its job more effective if it is blessed by the bishop?

    Wow, why isn't this tried before?
  11. Joined
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    23 Oct '10 06:16
    Why do you desire not to gain true understanding to your immeasurable intelligence? It's very clear you do not.
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    23 Oct '10 06:35
    Originally posted by tacoandlettuce
    Why do you desire not to gain true understanding to your immeasurable intelligence? It's very clear you do not.
    It seem you do think it is indeed possible to enhance friction by the technique of blessing!
    Is there any scientific measure of friction made to show this blesas-effect?
  13. Joined
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    23 Oct '10 06:44
    And I am being called a troll.
  14. Joined
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    23 Oct '10 07:48
    Originally posted by tacoandlettuce
    And I am being called a troll.
    You evade the question. Therefore I think that you feel painted against a wall, with a sensed no way out of the situation.

    This mean that you agree to my point, that there is no way to religiously alter the laws of science, but just don't want to admit it.

    Okay, end of story.

    If you still avoid the question, then I am forced to start a new thread just in this matter in order to show that there is no religious power to chance the natural laws of science, i.e. miracles are impossible.
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    24 Oct '10 03:42
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Laws are only absolutes if there is no higher law e.g the law* of gravity is only seen in action if there is no higher force opposing that law.

    E.g when a father lifts his baby from it's cot, the law of gravity is not broken, it is merely temporarily superseded by the strength of the parent. However to a being not familiar with the concept of a "pa ...[text shortened]... nd spiritual.



    *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_law_of_universal_gravitation
    God created the universe and all the laws that govern it.

    A miracle happens when God does the impossible.
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