Spirituality
16 Oct 06
16 Oct 06
BBC.com has a story about a cartoon version of the life of Pope John Paul II, subtitled *cough* "The Friend of All Humanity."
The story ends with the line, "It is intended to appeal particularly to children."
With all the talk about brainwashing in the Jesus Camp thread, I wonder if this is nothing but a more benign version of the same thing.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6054808.stm
16 Oct 06
Originally posted by rwingettbrainwashing:
BBC.com has a story about a cartoon version of the life of Pope John Paul II, subtitled *cough* "The Friend of All Humanity."
The story ends with the line, "It is intended to appeal particularly to children."
With all the talk about brainwashing in the Jesus Camp thread, I wonder if this is nothing but a more benign version of the same thing.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6054808.stm
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/brainwashing
1. a method for systematically changing attitudes or altering beliefs, originated in totalitarian countries, esp. through the use of torture, drugs, or psychological-stress techniques.
2. any method of controlled systematic indoctrination, esp. one based on repetition or confusion: brainwashing by TV commercials.
3. an instance of subjecting or being subjected to such techniques: efforts to halt the brainwashing of captive audiences.
---
Actually, it's 'indoctrination' we're talking about in the Jesus Camp thread.
indoctrination:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/indoctrination
1. to instruct in a doctrine, principle, ideology, etc., esp. to imbue with a specific partisan or biased belief or point of view.
2. to teach or inculcate.
3. to imbue with learning.
Is it brainwashing? Unless the RCC plans to come out with a whole series of cartoons about former Popes, I would have to say - no.
Is it indoctrination? Certainly!
16 Oct 06
Originally posted by rwingettChrist. This guy was one of the better ones. He had appeal, he had charisma, and I believe that he was probably genuinely a nice guy who tried to better the situation of the Church FOR the people.
BBC.com has a story about a cartoon version of the life of Pope John Paul II, subtitled *cough* "The Friend of All Humanity."
The story ends with the line, "It is intended to appeal particularly to children."
With all the talk about brainwashing in the Jesus Camp thread, I wonder if this is nothing but a more benign version of the same thing.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6054808.stm
Lay off. Or at the very least, go after some other popes (who may be deserving of).
Sure, the RCC has some things backwards, but this guy was going forward. Of all the people I would have liked to meet, he was at the top of my list.
And to answer your "wondering", no. It is not. It's a cartoon about a good guy. He did what he could, so don't give me that crap about "well he didn't do enough". He did a lot.
Jesus Camp doesn't even compare with this. Yes, I saw it, and it was hilarious. (Funny-scary, not funny-haha). I guess their mentality is "fight fire with fire" or in this case "counter their (Islamic) martyrs with our own martyrs. and f*** the athiests/secularists (infidels)".
17 Oct 06
Originally posted by lioyankI dispute your characterization of the Pope as a good guy. No one who so zealously perpetuates medieval Catholic dogma is a good guy. No one. The Pope may have had a few good points, but his bad ones remove him from any consideration for "man of the year." The fact that there have been a plethora of other Popes who were no better than criminals doesn't give him a free ride.
Christ. This guy was one of the better ones. He had appeal, he had charisma, and I believe that he was probably genuinely a nice guy who tried to better the situation of the Church FOR the people.
Lay off. Or at the very least, go after some other popes (who may be deserving of).
Sure, the RCC has some things backwards, but this guy was going forward. ...[text shortened]... slamic) martyrs with our own martyrs. and f*** the athiests/secularists (infidels)".
17 Oct 06
Originally posted by lucifershammerActually the discussion was tending towards the question as to whether it was indoctrination or brainwashing. The origional posters veiws implied something closer to brainwashing was taking place.
Actually, it's 'indoctrination' we're talking about in the Jesus Camp thread.
17 Oct 06
Originally posted by rwingettThere are no good religious folk in your book. Period.
I dispute your characterization of the Pope as a good guy. No one who so zealously perpetuates medieval Catholic dogma is a good guy. No one. The Pope may have had a few good points, but his bad ones remove him from any consideration for "man of the year." The fact that there have been a plethora of other Popes who were no better than criminals doesn't give him a free ride.
17 Oct 06
Originally posted by lucifershammerFrom the athiest point of view, all religous folk are perpetuating lies for selfish reasons. However I would not characterise all religious folk as either bad or evil but rather misguided.
There are no good religious folk in your book. Period.
However, I can see how the pope, by allowing millions of death to aids (by discouraging condom use) could be seen as a very bad person. I also dont see why, as the head of the church, he should be entitled to any more glory than say a monk in some lonely monatery who has lead just as good a life.
17 Oct 06
Originally posted by twhiteheadWe've been over the whole "allowing millions of death to AIDS" debate before; I'm not going over it again.
From the athiest point of view, all religous folk are perpetuating lies for selfish reasons. However I would not characterise all religious folk as either bad or evil but rather misguided.
However, I can see how the pope, by allowing millions of death to aids (by discouraging condom use) could be seen as a very bad person. I also dont see why, as the hea ...[text shortened]... tled to any more glory than say a monk in some lonely monatery who has lead just as good a life.
No, he isn't entitled to any more glory because he was head of the Church -- he is entitled to it for his personal holiness (just like any of the hundreds of other saints -- including monks in lonely monasteries).
OTOH, he was the first Pope to really work under the gaze of the modern media, so there's naturally a demand to know more about his life and times. The cartoon meets that demand.
17 Oct 06
Originally posted by rwingettSo in reality you are talking about indoctrination while using the term brainwashing. I believe the term is 'fallacy of equivocation'. I once did it and I think you told me I deserved......what was it.....to be kicked in the head with an iron boot I believe it was. Well you sir get the boot!!!!!!!!
BBC.com has a story about a cartoon version of the life of Pope John Paul II, subtitled *cough* "The Friend of All Humanity."
The story ends with the line, "It is intended to appeal particularly to children."
With all the talk about brainwashing in the Jesus Camp thread, I wonder if this is nothing but a more benign version of the same thing.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6054808.stm
17 Oct 06
Originally posted by lucifershammerI wasnt trying to debate the "allowing millions of death to AIDS" in this thread.
We've been over the whole "allowing millions of death to AIDS" debate before; I'm not going over it again.
My point was that he could be viewed as bad by those who think that the "allowing millions of death to AIDS" is a genuine issue (as I do).
17 Oct 06
Originally posted by twhiteheadOkay. So, then, are there any good religious people (especially orthodox Catholics) in your book?
I wasnt trying to debate the "allowing millions of death to AIDS" in this thread.
My point was that he could be viewed as bad by those who think that the "allowing millions of death to AIDS" is a genuine issue (as I do).
17 Oct 06
Originally posted by rwingettIt's just animated biography. Sure, it'll simplify and distort things a little, the way narrative does, but provided it doesn't require active audience participation (chanting, gestures...), it seems benign enough.
With all the talk about brainwashing in the Jesus Camp thread, I wonder if this is nothing but a more benign version of the same thing.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6054808.stm
17 Oct 06
Originally posted by lucifershammerNo body is trully good or bad, we all have good and bad thoughts and actions.
Okay. So, then, are there any good religious people (especially orthodox Catholics) in your book?
I went to a Catholic secondary school and I have enormous respect for the brothers who taught me. Their dedication to teaching is amazing. However I am sure that most of them would actively discourage condoms because they are Catholic and not because they agree with the policy. I have lost friends to AIDS and since the Roman Catholic Church is by far the biggest church in Zambia I have no doubt that the no condom policy is partially responsible for the spread of AIDS in the country. I think the pope as the leader of the Catholic Church is more than a bit responsible for any harmfull policies of the Catholic Church.
17 Oct 06
Originally posted by twhiteheadI'm sorry to hear about your friends. But I have to ask -- in how many cases are their deaths directly attributable to Church teaching on condoms?
No body is trully good or bad, we all have good and bad thoughts and actions.
I went to a Catholic secondary school and I have enormous respect for the brothers who taught me. Their dedication to teaching is amazing. However I am sure that most of them would actively discourage condoms because they are Catholic and not because they agree with the policy. ...[text shortened]... Catholic Church is more than a bit responsible for any harmfull policies of the Catholic Church.
17 Oct 06
Originally posted by lucifershammerThere are many good religious people. But as Catholicism is an inherently vile doctrine, the people who set its tenets and propogate its spread are doing a great disservice to humanity. But I never said the Pope was an evil guy. I merely said he wasn't nearly as good as so many people want to pretend he was.
There are no good religious folk in your book. Period.