Originally posted by Joe Fist
Right but you are basing this on the assumption of the higher being enabling us with the moral code in the first place. I am stating this may not be the case. To continue the discussion, however, let's assume that the higher being did create the moral code.

Is it not possible that the higher being is "sadistic"? Should it be automatically assumed t ...[text shortened]... sadistic to us if we were not given life because we would not know about it in the first place.

Have you ever had any moments in your life that you were happy? Have you ever loved anyone? An evil being wouldn't have the capacity or motivation to give us that.

Originally posted by Darfius
Have you ever had any moments in your life that you were happy? Have you ever loved anyone? An evil being wouldn't have the capacity or motivation to give us that.

Of course he would. An evil being could give us the capacity to love someone else so that he could then kill that other person and take pleasure in our sorrow.

Originally posted by rwingett
Of course he would. An evil being could give us the capacity to love someone else so that he could then kill that other person and take pleasure in our sorrow.

Well, now we're talking about degrees of evil. Is he infinitely evil or only moderately evil? God is infinitely loving. He does not have the capacity to cause suffering. It happens as a result of man's free will, which is objectively good. Would the evil being give us free will?

Originally posted by Darfius
Have you ever had any moments in your life that you were happy? Have you ever loved anyone? An evil being wouldn't have the capacity or motivation to give us that.

Why wouldn't an evil higher being be able to give us happiness? Would it not be more sadistic to give happiness to us to have it stripped away? Such as in a violent murder? A horrific natural disaster? A life of physical discomfort and pain?

I am not making the claim the higher being is good or evil. Isn't determining something good or evil attributes mankind determines? Why would a god adhere to any description mankind determines?

Originally posted by Joe Fist
Why wouldn't an evil higher being be able to give us happiness? Would it not be more sadistic to give happiness to us to have it stripped away? Such as in a violent murder? A horrific natural disaster? A life of physical discomfort and pain?

I am not making the claim the higher being is good or evil. Isn't determining something good or evil attributes mankind determines? Why would a god adhere to any description mankind determines?

Why would a god make something completely foreign to himself?

Originally posted by Darfius
Why would a god make something completely foreign to himself?

I don't know? Why would wouldn't he?

Originally posted by Darfius
Well, now we're talking about degrees of evil. Is he infinitely evil or only moderately evil? God is infinitely loving. He does not have the capacity to cause suffering. It happens as a result of man's free will, which is objectively good. Would the evil being give us free will?

Surely, Darfius, if God decides to punish some people by sending them for eternity to Hell, he has the capacity to cause suffering. Whether they deserve it or not would irrelevant to the question of whether God has the capacity to bring about that state of affairs in accordance with their deserts.

Originally posted by Joe Fist
I don't know? Why would wouldn't he?

You're being illogical. It is more likely for a god to make something he could understand than not.

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
Surely, Darfius, if God decides to punish some people by sending them for eternity to Hell, he has the capacity to cause suffering. Whether they deserve it or not would irrelevant to the question of whether God has the capacity to bring about that state of affairs in accordance with their deserts.

They choose to go there. There are only two possible existences after death. With God or not with God. Is it God's fault that not being with Him is to suffer?

Originally posted by Darfius
Well, now we're talking about degrees of evil. Is he infinitely evil or only moderately evil? God is infinitely loving. He does not have the capacity to cause suffering. It happens as a result of man's free will, which is objectively good. Would the evil being give us free will?

It seems to me that Rob has refuted your claim that an evil god would not permit some happiness to exist. He might well do so if he got a sadistic kick out of disappointing that happiness ultimately. You have changed the subject, not defended your original assertion.

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
It seems to me that Rob has refuted your claim that an evil god would not permit some happiness to exist. He might well do so if he got a sadistic kick out of disappointing that happiness ultimately. You have changed the subject, not defended your original assertion.

An infinitely evil God does not have the capacity to CAUSE happiness. I have defended my assertion.

Originally posted by Darfius
They choose to go there. There are only two possible existences after death. With God or not with God. Is it God's fault that not being with Him is to suffer?

This is ridiculous Darfius! No one but a madman would choose to go to hell! God, according to you, sends the iniquitous to Hell. Hence, He has the capacity to do so, otherwise they wouldn't go there! He sends them there, according to you, if they choose to reject Him (as you define it). True, what God does, according to you, depends on what they do: but GOD DOES THE SENDING!

Aiden

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
This is ridiculous Darfius! No one but a madman would choose to go to hell! God, according to you, sends the iniquitous to Hell. Hence, He has the capacity to do so, otherwise they wouldn't go there! He sends them there, according to ...[text shortened]... o you, depends on what they do: but GOD DOES THE SENDING!

Aiden

Yes, God does the sending, in the same sense that a cab driver does the driving. Does the cab driver cause you to go there, or does he respect your wish to go there?

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
This is ridiculous Darfius! No one but a madman would choose to go to hell! God, according to you, sends the iniquitous to Hell. Hence, He has the capacity to do so, otherwise they wouldn't go there! He sends them there, according to you, if they choose to reject Him (as you define it). True, what God does, according to you, depends on what they do: but GOD DOES THE SENDING!

Aiden

You're choosing to go to hell right now, are you not, Pawn? In other words, are you rejecting God or not?

Originally posted by Darfius
An infinitely evil God does not have the capacity to CAUSE happiness. I have defended my assertion.

Neither Rob nor I made an assertion about an infinitely evil god, merely about an evil god. You first introduced the term "infinite".

Why would a god who introduces a modicum of happiness into the lives of humans, because he enjoys taking it away again, not be an evil god?

You have no coherent answer to this assertion.