07 Apr '05 22:36>2 edits
1. Is the teaching "if you have contemplated, prayed, meditated and thought about a topic and simply cannot rationally or spiritually be compelled by the position of the Church, one is morally obligiated to 'always obey the certain judgment' of one's conscience," your own (or a non-Catholic source) or from a Church document (such as the CCC)? (Specifically, the italicised portion.) If the latter, please provide a reference.
Now, to your post:
Originally posted by Nemesio
1790 answers your question. Ignorance is not excuse for conscience.
However, it is 100% that if you have contemplated, prayed, meditated
and thought about a topic and simply cannot rationally or spiritually
be compelled by the position of the Church, one is morally
obligiated to 'always obey the certain judgment' of one's
conscience, with emphasis on 'certainty.'
This is why the term '[b]informed conscience' is used. One is
expected to strive to understand the position of the Church by
studying the documents and the Bible, but one absolutely cannot go
against one's (informed) conscience just because the Church teaches
differently.[/b]
To answer this, I will backtrack a little in the CCC:
1783 Conscience must be informed and moral judgment enlightened. A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. The education of conscience is indispensable for human beings who are subjected to negative influences and tempted by sin to prefer their own judgment and to reject authoritative teachings.
2. The terms "[informed] conscience" and "well-formed conscience" appear to be synonymous.
3. Human beings who are "tempted by sin to prefer their own judgement and to reject [the Church's] authoritative teachings" require the education of the conscience.
4. It follows, therefore, that the consciences of those that reject the Church's authoritative teachings are not well-formed.
5. "Informed" in this context means more than "aware" [of Church teachings]. Rather, it one that is educated and formed in the light of Church teachings.
The cross-reference to this para reads:
2039 Ministries should be exercised in a spirit of fraternal service and dedication to the Church, in the name of the Lord.81 At the same time the conscience of each person should avoid confining itself to individualistic considerations in its moral judgments of the person's own acts. As far as possible conscience should take account of the good of all, as expressed in the moral law, natural and revealed, and consequently in the law of the Church and in the authoritative teaching of the Magisterium on moral questions. Personal conscience and reason should not be set in opposition to the moral law or the Magisterium of the Church.
6. This makes it clear - the personal conscience is not to be followed if it opposes the Magisterium (teachings) of the Church.
Again from the CCC:
1785 In the formation of conscience the Word of God is the light for our path,54 we must assimilate it in faith and prayer and put it into practice. We must also examine our conscience before the Lord's Cross. We are assisted by the gifts of the Holy Spirit, aided by the witness or advice of others and guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church.55
7. The well-formed conscience is guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church.
8. A conscience that rejects the teachings of the Church is not guided by it.
9. Hence, such a conscience is not well-formed / informed.
10. Note again the word "authoritative" with respect to Church teachings.
Reference 55 is from Dignitatis Humanae:
However, in forming their consciences, the faithful must pay careful attention to the sacred and certain teaching of the Church. For the Catholic Church is by the will of Christ the teacher of truth. It is her duty to proclaim and teach with authority the truth which is Christ and, at the same time, to declare and confirm by her authority the principles of the moral order which spring from human nature itself. (DH 14)
11. Here we encounter the word "certain", which does not just mean "sure", but also "authoritative" and "correct".
12. The Catholic Church "teaches with authority the truth".
13. "Truth can [never] be in opposition to truth ... every assertion contrary to the truth of enlightened faith is totally false" (Dei Verbum, Ch. 4. nn.17,18)
14. A conscience that sets itself in opposition to the truth that is authoritatively taught by the Church asserts a falsehood and, again, is not well-formed/informed.
Now, returning to CCC 1790:
15. The term "certain judgement of conscience" does not simply mean "100% sure". As seen in (11), it must be authoritative and correct.
16. Even if I were to assume your idea of "informed conscience" being a conscience aware of the teachings of the Church, how can such a conscience be 100% sure it's correct when it knows that Church teachings are authoritative and true, and to set itself in opposition to Church teachings would be to assert a false position?
17. Even if I were to assume your idea of "certain [conscience]" being a 100% sure conscience, the latter part of 1790 shows that such a conscience "[can remain] in ignorance and [make] erroneous judgments". It further corroborates the idea that an "informed conscience" is not just one that is merely "aware", but also guided by Church teaching.
18. Further, 1792 reiterates the erroneous nature of such judgments when they "[reject] the Church's authority and her teaching".
Later, the CCC says:
1801 Conscience can remain in ignorance or make erroneous judgments. Such ignorance and errors are not always free of guilt.
19. Erroneous judgements are guilty except under certain conditions.
What are those conditions?
1793 If - on the contrary - the ignorance is invincible, or the moral subject is not responsible for his erroneous judgment, the evil committed by the person cannot be imputed to him. It remains no less an evil, a privation, a disorder. One must therefore work to correct the errors of moral conscience.
20. Ignorance is "invincible" when it is beyond the control of the person concerned.
21. Erroneous judgement is not culpable if the person is not responsible for it.
22. A person who has studied the Scriptures and the teachings of the Church, prayed and meditated over it is certainly responsible for his judgement when he uses it to violate the teachings of the Scriptures/Church.
I'm sorry Nemesio - but your narrow reading of [the first part of] 1790 simply does not mean what you say when taken in the context of the section in the CCC and the larger body of Church teachings.
To make the argument that disagreement with the Church
necessitates ignorance is to fall into the Darfius-Trap, wherein a
person claims 'Well, if you disagree, you don't have the Holy Spirit and
can't understand and are ignorant.' I reject such non-reasoning.
The term "ignorant" in the context of the CCC section on Conscience does not merely mean "unaware", rather it also means "unenlightened" and "ill-formed".
Now, to your post:
Originally posted by Nemesio
1790 answers your question. Ignorance is not excuse for conscience.
However, it is 100% that if you have contemplated, prayed, meditated
and thought about a topic and simply cannot rationally or spiritually
be compelled by the position of the Church, one is morally
obligiated to 'always obey the certain judgment' of one's
conscience, with emphasis on 'certainty.'
This is why the term '[b]informed conscience' is used. One is
expected to strive to understand the position of the Church by
studying the documents and the Bible, but one absolutely cannot go
against one's (informed) conscience just because the Church teaches
differently.[/b]
To answer this, I will backtrack a little in the CCC:
1783 Conscience must be informed and moral judgment enlightened. A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. The education of conscience is indispensable for human beings who are subjected to negative influences and tempted by sin to prefer their own judgment and to reject authoritative teachings.
2. The terms "[informed] conscience" and "well-formed conscience" appear to be synonymous.
3. Human beings who are "tempted by sin to prefer their own judgement and to reject [the Church's] authoritative teachings" require the education of the conscience.
4. It follows, therefore, that the consciences of those that reject the Church's authoritative teachings are not well-formed.
5. "Informed" in this context means more than "aware" [of Church teachings]. Rather, it one that is educated and formed in the light of Church teachings.
The cross-reference to this para reads:
2039 Ministries should be exercised in a spirit of fraternal service and dedication to the Church, in the name of the Lord.81 At the same time the conscience of each person should avoid confining itself to individualistic considerations in its moral judgments of the person's own acts. As far as possible conscience should take account of the good of all, as expressed in the moral law, natural and revealed, and consequently in the law of the Church and in the authoritative teaching of the Magisterium on moral questions. Personal conscience and reason should not be set in opposition to the moral law or the Magisterium of the Church.
6. This makes it clear - the personal conscience is not to be followed if it opposes the Magisterium (teachings) of the Church.
Again from the CCC:
1785 In the formation of conscience the Word of God is the light for our path,54 we must assimilate it in faith and prayer and put it into practice. We must also examine our conscience before the Lord's Cross. We are assisted by the gifts of the Holy Spirit, aided by the witness or advice of others and guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church.55
7. The well-formed conscience is guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church.
8. A conscience that rejects the teachings of the Church is not guided by it.
9. Hence, such a conscience is not well-formed / informed.
10. Note again the word "authoritative" with respect to Church teachings.
Reference 55 is from Dignitatis Humanae:
However, in forming their consciences, the faithful must pay careful attention to the sacred and certain teaching of the Church. For the Catholic Church is by the will of Christ the teacher of truth. It is her duty to proclaim and teach with authority the truth which is Christ and, at the same time, to declare and confirm by her authority the principles of the moral order which spring from human nature itself. (DH 14)
11. Here we encounter the word "certain", which does not just mean "sure", but also "authoritative" and "correct".
12. The Catholic Church "teaches with authority the truth".
13. "Truth can [never] be in opposition to truth ... every assertion contrary to the truth of enlightened faith is totally false" (Dei Verbum, Ch. 4. nn.17,18)
14. A conscience that sets itself in opposition to the truth that is authoritatively taught by the Church asserts a falsehood and, again, is not well-formed/informed.
Now, returning to CCC 1790:
15. The term "certain judgement of conscience" does not simply mean "100% sure". As seen in (11), it must be authoritative and correct.
16. Even if I were to assume your idea of "informed conscience" being a conscience aware of the teachings of the Church, how can such a conscience be 100% sure it's correct when it knows that Church teachings are authoritative and true, and to set itself in opposition to Church teachings would be to assert a false position?
17. Even if I were to assume your idea of "certain [conscience]" being a 100% sure conscience, the latter part of 1790 shows that such a conscience "[can remain] in ignorance and [make] erroneous judgments". It further corroborates the idea that an "informed conscience" is not just one that is merely "aware", but also guided by Church teaching.
18. Further, 1792 reiterates the erroneous nature of such judgments when they "[reject] the Church's authority and her teaching".
Later, the CCC says:
1801 Conscience can remain in ignorance or make erroneous judgments. Such ignorance and errors are not always free of guilt.
19. Erroneous judgements are guilty except under certain conditions.
What are those conditions?
1793 If - on the contrary - the ignorance is invincible, or the moral subject is not responsible for his erroneous judgment, the evil committed by the person cannot be imputed to him. It remains no less an evil, a privation, a disorder. One must therefore work to correct the errors of moral conscience.
20. Ignorance is "invincible" when it is beyond the control of the person concerned.
21. Erroneous judgement is not culpable if the person is not responsible for it.
22. A person who has studied the Scriptures and the teachings of the Church, prayed and meditated over it is certainly responsible for his judgement when he uses it to violate the teachings of the Scriptures/Church.
I'm sorry Nemesio - but your narrow reading of [the first part of] 1790 simply does not mean what you say when taken in the context of the section in the CCC and the larger body of Church teachings.
To make the argument that disagreement with the Church
necessitates ignorance is to fall into the Darfius-Trap, wherein a
person claims 'Well, if you disagree, you don't have the Holy Spirit and
can't understand and are ignorant.' I reject such non-reasoning.
The term "ignorant" in the context of the CCC section on Conscience does not merely mean "unaware", rather it also means "unenlightened" and "ill-formed".