Catholic Social Teaching

Originally posted by Conrau K
[b]Or perhaps the institution not only survives but seems to have come out of it unscathed because it is part of the system. I don't know that an institution can become/ be that rich and powerful without being part of the system.

Or maybe people make charitable contributions to their church, or leave property to the church after their death. Even aft ...[text shortened]... he system subjects it to continuous litigation over its negligent handling of the abuse crisis.[/b]

The handling of the sexual abuse cases by the Church was absolutely criminal and those who conspired to perpetuate the situation should have been criminally prosecuted. The Church showed a serious level of depraved indifference. I have to believe that this would go all the way up to the Pope. The fact that this didn't happen speak volumes. Even the Churches handling of the civil cases shows an institution more interested in preserving its power and financial base than making restitution to the Churches victims. Victims that it should have protected in the first place.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
The handling of the sexual abuse cases by the Church was absolutely criminal and those who conspired to perpetuate the situation should have been criminally prosecuted. The Church showed a serious level of depraved indifference. I have to believe that this would go all the way up to the Pope. The fact that this didn't happen speak volumes. Even the Church ...[text shortened]... restitution to the Churches victims. Victims that it should have protected in the first place.

The handling of the sexual abuse cases by the Church was absolutely criminal and those who conspired to perpetuate the situation should have been criminally prosecuted.

Yes.

I have to believe that this would go all the way up to the Pope. The fact that this didn't happen speak volumes.

The Pope is not responsible for any criminal action.

Even the Churches handling of the civil cases shows an institution more interested in preserving its power and financial base than making restitution to the Churches victims.

How so?


And what is the point of this rant? Yes, the Church has been egregiously negligent. [i]But the Church has still lost billions of dollars. If the Church is part of the system, then this system must be very self-destructive.

Originally posted by Conrau K
[b]The handling of the sexual abuse cases by the Church was absolutely criminal and those who conspired to perpetuate the situation should have been criminally prosecuted.

Yes.

I have to believe that this would go all the way up to the Pope. The fact that this didn't happen speak volumes.

The Pope is not responsible for any criminal ac ...[text shortened]... f dollars. If the Church is part of the system, then this system must be very self-destructive.[/b]

Conspiracy to perpetuate a situation that fosters sexual abuse is not criminal?

If the Church was serious about making financial restitution it would not have used bankruptcy as a shield.

The system is about building/maintaining a power and financial base. The Church continues to show itself as a significant participant.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Conspiracy to perpetuate a situation that fosters sexual abuse is not criminal?

If the Church was serious about making financial restitution it would not have used bankruptcy as a shield.

Conspiracy to perpetuate a situation that fosters sexual abuse is not criminal?

Depends on the country. In Australia, it probably is criminal.

If the Church was serious about making financial restitution it would not have used bankruptcy as a shield.

A number of dioceses are bankrupt.

Anyway, I do not want to engage in an apologetic defence of the Catholic Church. My point is that the Church is not part of the system. Certain leaders may have been criminally negligent, some dioceses may have feigned bankruptcy for financial expedience, but that does not prove that the Church is part of the system. It only proves that it is immoral.

Originally posted by Conrau K
[b]Conspiracy to perpetuate a situation that fosters sexual abuse is not criminal?

Depends on the country. In Australia, it probably is criminal.

If the Church was serious about making financial restitution it would not have used bankruptcy as a shield.

A number of dioceses are bankrupt.

Anyway, I do not want to engage in an apologe ...[text shortened]... ut that does not prove that the Church is part of the system. It only proves that it is immoral.[/b]

I added the following to my post above while you were posting:
The system is about building/maintaining a power and financial base. The Church continues to show itself as a significant participant.

I don't understand the significance of a number of dioceses being bankrupt. If the Church was serious about making financial restitution it would have ignored the diocese structure and made good on the judgements.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I added the following to my post above while you were posting:
The system is about building/maintaining a power and financial base. The Church continues to show itself as a significant participant.

I don't understand the significance of a number of dioceses being bankrupt. If the Church was serious about making financial restitution it would have ignored the diocese structure and made good on the judgements.

I don't understand the significance of a number of dioceses being bankrupt. If the Church was serious about making financial restitution it would have ignored the diocese structure and made good on the judgements.

Because victims can only sue individual dioceses or religious orders.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I added the following to my post above while you were posting:
The system is about building/maintaining a power and financial base. The Church continues to show itself as a significant participant.

I don't understand the significance of a number of dioceses being bankrupt. If the Church was serious about making financial restitution it would have ignored the diocese structure and made good on the judgements.

The system is about building/maintaining a power and financial base. The Church continues to show itself as a significant participant.

So anything that maintains its power and financial base is part of the system? It sounds like there may be many systems.

Originally posted by Conrau K
[b]The system is about building/maintaining a power and financial base. The Church continues to show itself as a significant participant.

So anything that maintains its power and financial base is part of the system? It sounds like there may be many systems.[/b]

I think of it as any entity that is primarily concerned with building and maintaining a large power and/or financial base. I suppose you could also include entities that are primarily concerned with helping other entities do so. Like anything else, you can dice and slice it many different ways.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I think of it as any entity that is primarily concerned with building and maintaining a large power and/or financial base. I suppose you could also include entities that are primarily concerned with helping other entities do so. Like anything else, you can dice and slice it many different ways.

So the system allows damaging litigation against the Church, and the Church is part of the system?

Originally posted by Conrau K
So the system allows damaging litigation against the Church, and the Church is part of the system?

Do you consider major corporations to be part of the system? They often have to pay damages for wrongdoing. Let's face it, that's pretty much what the Church is.

If not, what is the system in your mind?

Originally posted by Conrau K
That wealth, however, is largely used by parishioners. It resides in property, such as schools and churches and hospitals.

Its still wealth and surely schools and hospitals are part of 'the System'. Running the education system is more influential than just about anything else.

What is your point? The Anglicans split from the Church 500 years ago.
Well nobody said "Roman Catholic". As far as I know the Anglicans are Catholic too.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Its still wealth and surely schools and hospitals are part of 'the System'. Running the education system is more influential than just about anything else.

[b]What is your point? The Anglicans split from the Church 500 years ago.
Well nobody said "Roman Catholic". As far as I know the Anglicans are Catholic too.[/b]

Its still wealth and surely schools and hospitals are part of 'the System'. Running the education system is more influential than just about anything else.

Do you think that Catholic schools and hospitals are part of the system which ThnkofOne defines as "any entity that is primarily concerned with building and maintaining a large power and/or financial base"?

Well nobody said "Roman Catholic". As far as I know the Anglicans are Catholic too.

All mainstream Christian denominations claim catholicity. The Anglicans further use the term to describe those members which continue to believe in transubstantiation and celebrate in the high mass. In the context of this thread, however, we were discussing Roman Catholic social teaching.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Do you consider major corporations to be part of the system? They often have to pay damages for wrongdoing. Let's face it, that's pretty much what the Church is.

If not, what is the system in your mind?

Do you consider major corporations to be part of the system? They often have to pay damages for wrongdoing. Let's face it, that's pretty much what the Church is.

Big assertions. Who profits in the Catholic Church? Surely not the parishioners, school-children and those dependent on welfare services!

Originally posted by Conrau K
[b]Do you consider major corporations to be part of the system? They often have to pay damages for wrongdoing. Let's face it, that's pretty much what the Church is.

Big assertions. Who profits in the Catholic Church? Surely not the parishioners, school-children and those dependent on welfare services![/b]

Like I've been saying, the primary concern of the Church is power and money. This is no different than any other major corporation. It is what it is.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Like I've been saying, the primary concern of the Church is power and money. This is no different than any other major corporation. It is what it is.

Thankyou for answering the question and supporting your assertions with...even bigger assertions.