Catholics, about as welcome as a porcupine in a balloon factory

Originally posted by Rajk999
How its possible to 'be saved' and then become 'unsaved is explained in Hebrews 6.

I have to leave now, but I will read it and see if you are telling me the truth when I get back.

The Instructor

Originally posted by Rajk999
How its possible to 'be saved' and then become 'unsaved is explained in Hebrews 6.

There is nothing here that the ones being instructed and warned against turning back have already been saved. These people have been receiving the teachings and training and should have matured enough by now to teach others. However, they are still in need of milk as a babe and not solid food as we see from Hebrews 5:13-14.

Now the majority orthodox interpretation starting with Hebrews 6:4 is that this is a hypothetical warning against stopping just short of true faith after advancing to the threshold of salvation. The idea is that if it were possible for one to be enlightened to the point of being given heavenly gifts by taking on the Holy Spirit and then fall away, it would be impossible to renew that person to repentence for it would be the same as that person crucifying Christ again as well as blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Obviously that is not going to happen because Christ offered one sacrifice for sins for all times by which those that are sanctified are perfected for all times (Hebrews 10:12,14).

He then goes on to give encouragement of assurance of the hope of salvation for those that will endure with patience to the end, like Abraham(Hebrews 6:11-15). This idea is repeated later like the following in Chapter 11:

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the men of old gained approval.

(Hebrews 11:1-2 NASB)

This is not saving one can be unsaved after being saved in my opinion.

The Instructor

Originally posted by caissad4
The holy, holy book was originally put together by the Catholic Church. Protestants didn't even exist when it was put together. Your protestant bible is just a variation of the original Catholic bible. Only much newer. That is a fact. You are not going to let your beliefs get in the way of the facts ? 🙄🙄🙄

The protestants don't believe in traditions, nor keeping a history. The idea of it would make them too catholic.

Originally posted by Pianoman1
No, the Pope is that funny guy who wears dresses, speaks some dead language and leads a congregation of 1.2 billion faithful adherents to worship the tortured, crippled and executed good man on a cross.

That was good, made me laugh. Thankyou!

Originally posted by RJHinds
I had pointed out to at least one of the JWs on here a long time ago that even though I was Baptized in a Souther Baptist Church at 12 years old that I never accepted the saying "once saved always saved" to mean that merely being baptized as a member of a church group meant one was saved. However, if one is saved without enduring to the end, I do not see ho ...[text shortened]... saved.

I claim to be a Christian, but I have never claimed to be saved yet.

The Instructor

Being Saved is something of the heart, Not of the head. You can say 'I am saved till you are blue in the face', but until your heart is circumsized, all the bragging, and carring on is useless.

Originally posted by RJHinds
There is nothing here that the ones being instructed and warned against turning back have already been saved. These people have been receiving the teachings and training and should have matured enough by now to teach others. However, they are still in need of milk as a babe and not solid food as we see from Hebrews 5:13-14.

Now the majority orthodox int ...[text shortened]... ASB)

This is not saving one can be unsaved after being saved in my opinion.

The Instructor

RJHinds, you have forgotten Satan. He is the most gifted angel, was a prince of Heaven. He knew, nearly everything, and in his pride, lost it all.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Im pretty sure that all the various Christian sects have their fair share of falsity in their doctrine. I used to be one to strongly Condemn Catholics for their Mary worship, their praying to statues, repetitive praying and stuff like that. But if you really look closely at your question [b]..do RCs follow the teachings of Jesus? and ask that of the doct ...[text shortened]... e poor and needy, visiting the sick, the orphans etc etc. This is how Christ said he will judge.[/b]

Thank you for your words, Rajk999.

I am catholic. I learn from you, my brothers in Christ, as i hope you take time to hear me.

Over the years, i have defended the protestants against the catholics and catholics against the protestants.

Some years ago, the Lord sent me to Kentucky. I did volunteer work for a few years, then worked at a cattle ranch.
While there the Lord told me to go to the other churches as well. Every weekend i went to a different church. I did this for 3 years.

I came to two conclusions. 1) All the churches were like children. Catholics included. From the oldest to the youngest. And they were all bickering back and forth as to who loved God more. Each church believed they were right and had the handle on God's ear. This is what the Lord then told me, 'see how my children fight amoung each other. Yet it is important to remember, many, many, many of them love me, and I love all of them.". 2) Of all the churches, my own, the catholics, had the deepest, richest dirt to grow in. The problem with the catholics is that they themselves don't even know it.

I know it sounds prejudiced to my own church, the problem is, that it is true.

The concept of the catholics not following scripture is untrue. And i would argue that we follow it better than the protestants. Hold your horses guys, gals, let me explain.
Now i do know that my explanations are a little different than you'ld get from the typical catholic. But i'm not the typical catholic.

Mary. I don't worship Mary, but i have a healthy respect for her. If you look in the Old Testament, you will read about the Ark of the Covenant. Mary is the Ark of the Covenant. The Ark of the Covenant held the Word of God along with a number of other special items. Jesus is the Word of God (see the Gospel of John:1) She bore the Word of God within her, as the Ark did. Now look at the Old Testament at how the Ark was treated even after the "Word" was lost. How it was honored, respected. And those who did not respect it. Ark captured by the enemy, then returned.

Statues: I don't pray to the statues. But i talk to those the statues represent. And if you want to claim, 'but they are dead.' It is written, 'if you die in Christ, you are alive and not dead.' So you see i am talking to the living in Christ, and not the dead. If the thought of talking to someone who has died of the flesh is so wrong to you, then you must condemn Jesus as well, Moses, and Laserus. Jesus told us to be like Him. So if Jesus can do it, so can I.

And what of doing what Jesus asks of us. This is the ONE thing i don't get with the protestant churches. The one thing Jesus asks, and nearly no one does "because it is too catholic". Breaking the beard and drinking the wine. "Do this in rememberence of me!"

Originally posted by Pudgenik
Thank you for your words, Rajk999.

I am catholic. I learn from you, my brothers in Christ, as i hope you take time to hear me.

Over the years, i have defended the protestants against the catholics and catholics against the protestants.

Some years ago, the Lord sent me to Kentucky. I did volunteer work for a few years, then worked at a cattle ranch ...[text shortened]... it is too catholic". Breaking the beard and drinking the wine. "Do this in rememberence of me!"

Since you and Rajk999 know so much about salvation, I will turn over the teaching of those on this forum to your superior knowledge. May God be with you.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Since you and Rajk999 know so much about salvation, I will turn over the teaching of those on this forum to your superior knowledge. May God be with you.

The authority on salvation is Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by Pudgenik
Thank you for your words, Rajk999.

I am catholic. I learn from you, my brothers in Christ, as i hope you take time to hear me.

Over the years, i have defended the protestants against the catholics and catholics against the protestants.

Some years ago, the Lord sent me to Kentucky. I did volunteer work for a few years, then worked at a cattle ranch ...[text shortened]... it is too catholic". Breaking the beard and drinking the wine. "Do this in rememberence of me!"

Regarding the Mary issue, while it is clearly not correct to worship her or pray to her [at least according to what I read in the Bible], it would appear to me that many churches have downgraded her status. The angel when greeting Mary as follows:

And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

I dont think that any other person was greeted [with the word 'Hail']in that way by any angel in the Bible. Next Mary herself predicted that

Luk 1:48 ..from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

Do the churches in general call Mary blessed? I dont think so. Mostly Catholics do that. Mary the mother of Jesus is sidlelined by Protestant churches.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Regarding the Mary issue, while it is clearly not correct to worship her or pray to her [at least according to what I read in the Bible], it would appear to me that many churches have downgraded her status. The angel when greeting Mary as follows:

[i]And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: bles ...[text shortened]... ink so. Mostly Catholics do that. Mary the mother of Jesus is sidlelined by Protestant churches.

Yes, and isn't that interesting. "I follow the bible", was the quote. We know that the Holy Spirit inspired Elizabeth. And if God made a statement like that, who are we to diminish what is written.