Change - Growth - Enlightenment

There have been many threads on why people post on the Spirituality Forum, and the general answer seems to have been that it is more fun than the other Forums!

Clearly, there is also a lot of attempted proselytizing going on, coupled with ridicule at these mostly ham-handed attempts.

I am curious to find out - is there anybody on RHP that would state that they have received any new insights or change of heart from any discussion here, as distinct from the friendly (and sometimes-not-so-friendly) banter?

Is there anybody whose previously held opinion has been altered, be it ever so slightly, or are we just regurgitating entrenched positions?

OK, relax, I KNOW it is not the purpose to achieve such a goal, but that the journey is more important than the destination, but I was just wondering nonetheless....

CJ

Originally posted by CalJust
There have been many threads on why people post on the Spirituality Forum, and the general answer seems to have been that it is more fun than the other Forums!

Clearly, there is also a lot of attempted proselytizing going on, coupled with ridicule at these mostly ham-handed attempts.

I am curious to find out - [i]is there anybody on RHP that would stat ...[text shortened]... e journey is more important than the destination, but I was just wondering nonetheless....

CJ

intellectual challenge from arguing with some of the atheists.
intellectual challenge from arguing with very few of the theists.


petty amusement from calling the hardcore zealots on their stupidity.

Originally posted by CalJust
There have been many threads on why people post on the Spirituality Forum, and the general answer seems to have been that it is more fun than the other Forums!

Clearly, there is also a lot of attempted proselytizing going on, coupled with ridicule at these mostly ham-handed attempts.

I am curious to find out - [i]is there anybody on RHP that would stat ...[text shortened]... e journey is more important than the destination, but I was just wondering nonetheless....

CJ

The question of why people post has indeed been asked before but I don't think I've ever seen the answer "because it's more fun than the other forums". There was a thread sometime ago where the question was asked specifically to the atheists and I can't remember that particular answer ever coming up.

Other than that, most of the time when I follow or have conversations with theists my amazement at what theists (moderates and extremists) believe and how they bend logic and reason so as to stick to their beliefs, grows. And so further and further I drift from understanding their positions.

That's probably not the alteration you were looking for, but it's an alteration nonetheless.

Originally posted by CalJust
There have been many threads on why people post on the Spirituality Forum, and the general answer seems to have been that it is more fun than the other Forums!

Clearly, there is also a lot of attempted proselytizing going on, coupled with ridicule at these mostly ham-handed attempts.

I am curious to find out - [i]is there anybody on RHP that would stat ...[text shortened]... e journey is more important than the destination, but I was just wondering nonetheless....

CJ

My own thinking has not been modified one iota, but I have been told by a few others that my presentation of the proper scope and definition of atheism has clarified their thinking on the term.

Originally posted by CalJust
There have been many threads on why people post on the Spirituality Forum, and the general answer seems to have been that it is more fun than the other Forums!

Clearly, there is also a lot of attempted proselytizing going on, coupled with ridicule at these mostly ham-handed attempts.

I am curious to find out - [i]is there anybody on RHP that would stat ...[text shortened]... e journey is more important than the destination, but I was just wondering nonetheless....

CJ

I have learned a lot from these forums. A few examples:

bbarr's "General Argument From Evil" thread - which I consider the strongest argument against the omni-everything version of God.
Galveston made/copy-pasted an excellent case that the Bible does not support the concept of eternal torment in hell.
jaywill/sonship and I had a good discussion on the similarities (or dissimilarities) between the Bible and Aesop's Fables/Lord of the Rings etc.

A few of my favorite ongoing topics:

- Do we actually choose our beliefs? If no, does it make sense to hold a person morally accountable for unbelief?
- Does religion usually lead social morality/behavior, or does it follow it?
- Does the Bible offer a single, clear, unambiguous, divinely-inspired moral code, or is it a large collection of books with a wide variety of authors and ideas, subject to interpretation, and offering tools of persuasion and verses to quote in support of almost any moral stance?

Originally posted by CalJust
There have been many threads on why people post on the Spirituality Forum, and the general answer seems to have been that it is more fun than the other Forums!

Clearly, there is also a lot of attempted proselytizing going on, coupled with ridicule at these mostly ham-handed attempts.

I am curious to find out - [i]is there anybody on RHP that would stat ...[text shortened]... e journey is more important than the destination, but I was just wondering nonetheless....

CJ

I've learnt a lot over the years, although one has to be persistent as the levels of perceived retardation can be distracting.

Most of what I've learnt has come from the Jehovah's witnesses and a selection of the more moderate atheists.

Originally posted by SwissGambit

I have learned a lot from these forums. A few examples:

bbarr's "General Argument From Evil" thread - which I consider the strongest argument against the omni-everything version of God.

Actually, I miss bbarr - a very sharp mind and a worthy opponent. Whatever happened to him?

Btw, twhitehead also frequently picks up the essence of an argument and goes straight for the jugular. Good stuff!


Galveston made/copy-pasted an excellent case that the Bible does not support the concept of eternal torment in hell.

I must have missed that one. I did not know that JWs dismiss the concept of hell. I only jetissoned that idea about three years ago, and mainly from Rob Bell, and not RHP.

To me, the most embarrassing part of this forum is the un-Christian (and ridiculous) way in which Christianity is presented by some of its Prime Promoters. Father, forgive them for they know not....

Originally posted by divegeester
I've learnt a lot over the years, although one has to be persistent as the levels of perceived retardation can be distracting.

I agree with you about persistence.

Especially when a serious argument in a thread is highjacked by the knee jerk response of regurgitated cliches.

Originally posted by CalJust
There have been many threads on why people post on the Spirituality Forum, and the general answer seems to have been that it is more fun than the other Forums!

Clearly, there is also a lot of attempted proselytizing going on, coupled with ridicule at these mostly ham-handed attempts.

I am curious to find out - [i]is there anybody on RHP that would stat ...[text shortened]... e journey is more important than the destination, but I was just wondering nonetheless....

CJ

Yes, I had one opinion altered back when sonship was called Jaywill. I think that was the name.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
I have learned a lot from these forums. A few examples:

bbarr's "General Argument From Evil" thread - which I consider the strongest argument against the omni-everything version of God.
Galveston made/copy-pasted an excellent case that the Bible does not support the concept of eternal torment in hell.
jaywill/sonship and I had a good discussion on t ...[text shortened]... d offering tools of persuasion and verses to quote in support of almost any moral stance?

"Do we actually choose our beliefs?" -SG

If not each of us individually, then who "chooses our beliefs?"

Originally posted by SwissGambit

A few of my favorite ongoing topics:

- Do we actually choose our beliefs? If no, does it make sense to hold a person morally accountable for unbelief?
- Does religion usually lead social morality/behavior, or does it follow it?

Thanks, SG. These are actually very interesting topics, and I don't seem to recognize them as current themes.

For what it's worth, though, here's my answer to both of them.

1. This one seems almost too obvious to be contentious: if you were born in a Muslim country today, e.g. Iran or Afghanistan, odds are overwhelming that you would be a Muslim. Similarly in Tibet you would be a Buddhist. And if you were born anywhere in Europe, most likely you would be an atheist!

Such are the odds, and if you would want to change your religion, in most of these place it would come at huge social cost. So, did you chose your religion in these countries? I don't think so.

2. Which comes first? Not really sure, but what I DO know, is that in countries OTHER than so-called Christian countries, e.g. Malaysia, their entire life revolves around their beliefs. In "In- God-we-trust" America, a visitor from Mars observing their society would be dumbfounded to discover what a majority of Americans actually say they believe!