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    04 Mar '07 20:57
    I'm starting this tread because the question arose, in another thread, over whether or not God changes.

    Does, can, will, or has God ever changed?
  2. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    04 Mar '07 21:04
    Originally posted by josephw
    I'm starting this tread because the question arose, in another thread, over whether or not God changes.

    Does, can, will, or has God ever changed?
    Not if he's omniscient, since he already knows everything he'll do.
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    04 Mar '07 21:21
    Originally posted by josephw
    I'm starting this tread because the question arose, in another thread, over whether or not God changes.

    Does, can, will, or has God ever changed?
    no
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    04 Mar '07 22:232 edits
    Originally posted by josephw
    I'm starting this tread because the question arose, in another thread, over whether or not God changes.

    Does, can, will, or has God ever changed?
    Well, you theists think He is causally efficacious, don't you? If so, then you are committed to the stance that He can change (and does change and has changed). Just look at the Bible: it shows a God that is causally active. For example, He tortures and kills a bunch of helpless people at various places in the OT. No thing that is changeless could ever do that.

    Of course, some of you also want to claim that He is eternal (in the sense that He exists beyond all temporal relations). I've tried to bring up this problem of action before but was confronted by general brickwall-ishness.
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    05 Mar '07 03:59
    Originally posted by LemonJello
    Well, you theists think He is causally efficacious, don't you? If so, then you are committed to the stance that He can change (and does change and has changed). Just look at the Bible: it shows a God that is causally active. For example, He tortures and kills a bunch of helpless people at various places in the OT. No thing that is changeless could eve ...[text shortened]... ied to bring up this problem of action before but was confronted by general brickwall-ishness.
    Causally efficacious? You're kidding! I've never read that in the bible.
    Do you realize you're calling God a murderer?
    Do you expect anyone to take you seriously?
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    05 Mar '07 04:04
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    Not if he's omniscient, since he already knows everything he'll do.
    Right on.
    For an atheist you seem to know alot about the bible. At least you know the correct answers.
    Is it possible for you to narrow your objection to faith into a single issue.
  7. Donationbbarr
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    05 Mar '07 04:26
    Originally posted by josephw
    Causally efficacious? You're kidding! I've never read that in the bible.
    Do you realize you're calling God a murderer?
    Do you expect anyone to take you seriously?
    Don't be dense. If God ever causes anything to happen, then by definition God is causally efficacious. Certainly you can find instances in the Bible where God putatively caused something to happen.
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    05 Mar '07 04:34
    of course he changes, like everyone else. the things you go through changes you
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    05 Mar '07 06:00
    Originally posted by josephw
    Causally efficacious? You're kidding! I've never read that in the bible.
    Do you realize you're calling God a murderer?
    Do you expect anyone to take you seriously?
    Causally efficacious? You're kidding! I've never read that in the bible.

    You don't think the Bible reads as though God causes/has caused stuff to happen?

    Do you realize you're calling God a murderer?

    Yep, your God is a murderer. And being that murder entails temporal action, it follows that all murderers have undergone change.
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    05 Mar '07 06:222 edits
    Originally posted by LemonJello
    [b]Causally efficacious? You're kidding! I've never read that in the bible.

    You don't think the Bible reads as though God causes/has caused stuff to happen?

    Do you realize you're calling God a murderer?

    Yep, your God is a murderer. And being that murder entails temporal action, it follows that all murderers have undergone change.[/b]
    Yep, your God is a murderer. And being that murder entails temporal action, it follows that all murderers have undergone change.

    I'm not Christian , and I don't think the bible is a word of GOD, but the idea that GOD kill people is very stupid. All humans are supposed to be GOD made. Without him they are nothing. He gave them their life, and he can take it any time. Tell me what is the difference between a man died in the flood and a man died on his bed. It is all death. And it is all the same, end of one life and a start of a new one.

    In all religion GOD only is the source of life, so if he gave your life, you call him a murderer to take it back. I think you better ask why he gave it to you from the begining.

    all murderers have undergone change.

    This phrase implies that GOD = man, which is not true. Rules you apply on humans don't apply on GOD.
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    05 Mar '07 07:25
    Originally posted by ahosyney
    [b]Yep, your God is a murderer. And being that murder entails temporal action, it follows that all murderers have undergone change.

    I'm not Christian , and I don't think the bible is a word of GOD, but the idea that GOD kill people is very stupid. All humans are supposed to be GOD made. Without him they are nothing. He gave them their life, and he c ...[text shortened]... rase implies that GOD = man, which is not true. Rules you apply on humans don't apply on GOD.[/b]
    Without him they are nothing. He gave them their life, and he can take it any time.

    Well, I disagree. Your moral outlook is not only infantile, but it is degrading to me and all persons (well, except maybe for God, I suppose). By extension, your view is degrading to all sentient natural life forms. I realize that many theists believe (as you also do, apparently) that we are all inherently worthless; that all of our worth and value is merely contingent in some way or another on an external being. I, however, think that is ridiculous and not even remotely in alignment with our better intuitions and basic beliefs. Apparently, you're willing to conclude that if God were to drive swords through innocent babies or your own family members for example, that would be just fine and dandy. I think this type of complacency you espouse is repugnant. Honestly I think you are, to this extent, a very sick individual.

    This phrase implies that GOD = man, which is not true. Rules you apply on humans don't apply on GOD.

    No, you're confused.
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    05 Mar '07 07:412 edits
    Originally posted by LemonJello
    [b]Without him they are nothing. He gave them their life, and he can take it any time.

    Well, I disagree. Your moral outlook is not only infantile, but it is degrading to me and all persons (well, except maybe for God, I suppose). By extension, your view is degrading to all sentient natural life forms. I realize that many theists believe (as you which is not true. Rules you apply on humans don't apply on GOD.[/b]

    No, you're confused.[/b]
    Thank you for nice words on me. But I don't think calling others sick is a good way to prove your point if you have one. I know you disagree with me, otherwise I wouldn't have replayed to you from the begining.

    I don't degrading any form of life. If not because any secular reason, at least my GOD ask me to value all forms of life.

    I'm not talking from human point of view. I'm talking from GOD point of view. If you don't understand the difference it is your problem.

    You concluded many things which are only in your mind. My sentence doesn't imply anything more than I said. You called GOD murderer. Murderer takes human lifes. GOD will take all human lifes any way. That is the nature of life. Calling him murderer doesn't make any sense

    No, you're confused.

    I what part , equating GOD to man , or juding GOD with human made rules.
  13. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    05 Mar '07 08:14
    Originally posted by josephw
    Right on.
    For an atheist you seem to know alot about the bible. At least you know the correct answers.
    Is it possible for you to narrow your objection to faith into a single issue.
    It's more that I understand logic, rather than have even a working knowledge of the bible, despite the best efforts of my family when I was young.
  14. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    05 Mar '07 08:15
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    of course he changes, like everyone else. the things you go through changes you
    So, God exists within time then? For your statement to be true he'd have to, since your statement requires causality to exist.
  15. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    05 Mar '07 08:17
    Originally posted by ahosyney
    Tell me what is the difference between a man died in the flood and a man died on his bed.
    If you don't understand this is different, you are truly lost.
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