Originally posted by googlefudge
Originally posted by googlefudge
No, IF does not get you out of this...
You made a statement of the form
IF [b]A THEN B.
A being FG said, "On the basis of my reasoning and taste,
Ice Cream doesn't exist for me today"
B being at least she'd be making a logical decision.
A is not logical, thus if FG said A then FG would not be bein ...[text shortened]... F at the front does nothing whatsoever to mitigate that.
I go back to my Inigo Montoya quote.[/b]
"No, IF does not get you out of this..."
"Types of Conditional IF Statements"
"The Koine Greek used syntax to express Four completely different concepts. Unfortunately, each concept was translated "if" in the King James Version of the Bible. The 4 types of Conditional IF Clauses are summarized:
If - and it is true - [ei - 1st class conditional if]
"If and I recognize it is NOT true"
"if - maybe you will, maybe you won't - [ean + subjunctive mood - 3rd Class Conditional IF]
^ [the type most English speakers would recognize for "if"]
"If it is true, I wish it were, but it is not"
Finally, occasionally the writer will use the "debater's technique". That means, for example, he will use a "1st class conditional if" to indicate "if I assume this to be true". The context will lead you to understand this is not what the writer actually believes. Instead, he is using a 1st class condition to say "I assume this is true so I can then prove it is false".
1. A "Conditional Clause" is a statement of supposition. The fulfillment of which is assumed to secure the realization of the potential fact expressed in the companion clause. The First clause gives the supposition and the second clause gives the fulfillment. 2. The clause containing the supposition is called the "Protasis". 3. The clause containing the statement based on the supposition is called "Apodosis". 4. All conditional clauses are categorized on the basis of the attitude they express with reference to reality.
Recognition in the Greek:
a. 1st Class condition - Supposition from the viewpoint of reality. Normally recognized in the Greek by: "ei" plus the indicative in the Protasis IF and it is true. example verse: Luke 4:3: "If you are the Son of God - and I recognize you are - [could be the 1st class of assumption - Satan said this to Jesus maybe to then "prove him wrong", which he then failed to do!]
b. 2nd class condition - Supposition from the viewpoint of unreality - contrary to fact condition. Normally recognized in the Greek by: "ean" in the Protasis plus "oun" in the Apodosis. IF and it is NOT true. example verse: Luke 4:7: "If you will fall down and worship me - but I know you won't" or "ei" plus indicative mood in the Protasis plus a negative in the Apodosis
c. 3rd class condition - The 'more probable' future condition. Normally recognized in the Greek by: "ean" plus the subjunctive in the Protasis IF . . . maybe we will, maybe we won't. example verse: I John 1:9 : "If we confess our sins - maybe we will, maybe we won't . . ."
d. 4th class condition - The 'less probable' future condition. Normally recognized in the Greek by: "ei" plus the optative mood in the Protasis OR "oun" plus the optative mood in the Apodosis IF . . . and I wish it were but it is NOT true. example verse: I Peter 3:14: "But if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, I wish it were TRUE but that is not why you suffer this time." http://syndein.com/Greek_If.htm
googlefudge, I hope this summary enables you to fully understand the Koine Greek 3rd Class Condition.