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    25 Jan '12 12:591 edit
    The New Testament tells the Christians that Jesus Christ is their Passover. He is not only the Passover Lamb. He is the whole Passover.

    In this thread I would like to discuss and expound that various aspects of the Passover in the book of Exodus and show how they relate to Christ. Exodus Chapter 12 is a source of details about the Passover.

    First Corinthians 5:7 - " Purge out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, even as you are unleavened; for our Passover, Christ, also has been sacrficed."
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    25 Jan '12 13:201 edit
    Originally posted by jaywill
    The New Testament tells the Christians that Jesus Christ is their Passover. He is not only the Passover Lamb. He is the whole Passover.

    In this thread I would like to discuss and expound that various aspects of the Passover in the book of Exodus and show how they relate to Christ. [b]Exodus Chapter 12
    is a source of details about the Passover.
    ...[text shortened]... new lump, even as you are unleavened; for our Passover, Christ, also has been sacrficed." [/b][/b]
    (1 Corinthians 5:7)  Clear away the old leaven, that you may be a new lump,
    according as you are free from ferment. For, indeed, Christ our passover has been
    sacrificed.

    Let us take a look at some of the elements contained in this verse, the verse speaks
    of a new lump, or a new creation,

    (2 Corinthians 5:17) . . .Consequently if anyone is in union with Christ, he is a new
    creation; the old things passed away. . .

    what old things have passed away?

    (Ephesians 4:22-24) . . .that you should put away the old personality which
    conforms to your former course of conduct and which is being corrupted according
    to his deceptive desires;  but that you should be made new in the force actuating
    your mind, and should put on the new personality which was created according to
    God’s will in true righteousness and loyalty.

    therefore Paul in using the illustration of leven usually with reference to sin or
    sinfulness, is stating , that on the basis of the sacrifice of Christ, this should affect us
    so deeply that what results, in harmony with 'the force actuating our minds', is a
    complete inner metamorphosis, from a fleshly man to a spiritual one.
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    25 Jan '12 13:403 edits
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    (1 Corinthians 5:7) 7 Clear away the old leaven, that you may be a new lump,
    according as you are free from ferment. For, indeed, Christ our passover has been
    sacrificed.

    Let us take a look at some of the elements contained in this verse, the verse speaks
    of a new lump, or a new creation,

    (2 Corinthians 5:17) . . .Consequently if anyone uating our minds', is a
    complete inner metamorphosis, from a fleshly man to a spiritual one.
    (Ephesians 4:22-24) . . .that you should put away the old personality which conforms to your former course of conduct and which is being corrupted according to his deceptive desires; but that you should be made new in the force actuating your mind, and should put on the new personality which was created according to God’s will in true righteousness and loyalty.



    I think a better translation has the more literal "old man". Some modern English versions put "old personality" assuming things a bit.

    But "the old man" and the "new man" are not too individual as a personality but denote fallen Adamic humanity and the new creation in Christ.

    So I prefer the Recovery Version -

    "That you put off, as regards your former manner of life, the old man, which is being corrupted according to the lusts of the deceit,

    And [that] you be renewed in the spirit of your mind and put on the new man, which was created according to God in righteousness and holiness of the reality."


    Christ created the NEW MAN on the cross, in Himself, allowing Jews and Gentiles into one body, breakng down the middle wall of partition -

    "For He Himself is our peace, He who has made both one and has broken down the middle wall of partition, the enmity,

    Abolishing in His flesh the law of the commandments in ordinacnes, that He might create the two in Himself into one new man, [so] making peace, and might reconcile both in one Body to God through the cross, having slain the enmity by it." (Eph. 2:14-16)



    The RcV translation therefore brings out that the "new man" that the believers put on this this "new man" created from two divided parties and brought into one by His cross.

    Through transformation in the indwelling life of Jesus Christ, the "new man" is " put on" .
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    25 Jan '12 13:491 edit
    Originally posted by jaywill
    [quote] (Ephesians 4:22-24) . . .that you should put away the old personality which conforms to your former course of conduct and which is being corrupted according to his deceptive desires; but that you should be made new in the force actuating your mind, and should put on the new personality which was created according to God’s will in true righteousne indwelling life of Jesus Chrsit, the [b]"new man" is " put on" .[/b]
    but the verse states that its 'the force actuating upon ones mind', which transforms the
    inner man, this force being the Holy spirit and what in fact transpires is that
    appreciation for the sacrifice of the Christ percolates from the mind to the heart and
    the individual is transformed. That the personality is intended, or if you prefer the
    inner man, is clear from the context.
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    25 Jan '12 13:49
    A picture is worth a thousand words often. What is seen in Exodus is not a systematic doctrinal outline but a picture.

    The Passover portrayed in Ecodus 12 is a clear, adequate, and all-inclusive type of the redemption of Christ. Maybe the fullest portrait symbolically put forth occurs in Exodus 12.

    It reveals practical details of applying Christ's eternal redemption.
    It is related to practical needs of the Christian.

    What a portrait of redemption is there in Exodus 12. I will propose meanings for many of the details. I will not argue too much, maybe. If people can receive it they can receive it. If they cannot then they just cannot.

    I would advize to prove all things and hold fast to what is good. That is good. Some things you may say are far fetched. I will offer some substantiation.

    These matters of interpretation are much based on the experience of Christians down through the centries.
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    25 Jan '12 13:572 edits
    Most bible students probably know that the NT calls Jesus Christ "the Lamb of God" and indeed the whole Passover. We can see more details of HOW Christ is the "Lamb of God" (John 1:29) by studying the Passover of Exodus 12.

    What are some of these details ?

    1.) The blood put on the lintel and the doorpost (12:22)

    2.) Eating of bitter herbs

    3.) Eating of the flesh of the lamb

    4.) The roasting of the lamb

    5.) The eating standing with loins girded and shoes on the feet.

    6.) The eating inside the house.

    7.) The use of hyssop to sprinkle on the outside door.

    These details all relate to Christ's redemption.
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    25 Jan '12 14:143 edits
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    but the verse states that its 'the force actuating upon ones mind', which transforms the
    inner man, this force being the Holy spirit and what in fact transpires is that
    appreciation for the sacrifice of the Christ percolates from the mind to the heart and
    the individual is transformed. That the personality is intended, or if you prefer the
    inner man, is clear from the context.
    but the verse states that its 'the force actuating upon ones mind', which transforms the inner man, this force being the Holy spirit and what in fact transpires is that appreciation for the sacrifice of the Christ percolates from the mind to the heart and the individual is transformed. That the personality is intended, or if you prefer the inner man, is clear from the context.


    "If indeed you have so learned Christ" (v20)

    Paul is not saying we Christians just learned something ABOUT Christ.
    He says the believers should have , "IF" - "LEARNED CHRIST."

    That is LEARNED a living Person. Learned Jesus from experienceing Jesus.

    "If indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him as the reality is in Jesus ..." (v.21)


    The living Person of Jesus is the realm and the sphere in which the believer HEARS Christ and is TAUGHT in Christ. No one becomes and expert in one day. But over a lifetime the saved man should HEAR Christ and LEARN Christ as the reality of is in Christ and is Christ.

    No Christ - no reality.

    These verses come just before the verses about putting on the new man and the spirit of the mind and so forth.

    Christ is living in the Christian in his regenerated spirit - "The Lord be with your spirit" (2 Tim. 4:22)

    Christ as the life giving Spirit bears WITNESS with the believer's spirit that he is in a intimate family relationship with God.

    "The Spirit Himself witnesses with our spirit that we are the children of God" (Rom. 8:16)

    Some of this may come out in the symbolism of the Passover. I get ahead of myself though, commenting on your contributions.

    The unregenerated man is like in a TWO DIMENSIONAL world. When the comatose human spirit is brought to life through receiving Christ and His redemption, to his great surprisee he learns that there is a THIRD DIMENSION to the world he has never known.

    The mind SET on this THIRD DIMENSION enfluences the walk. And in more and more things the mind set on the regenerated spirit causes the new man to be put on through transformation.


    It is not always easy. But God is FAITHFUL. But none of this happens if the living Person of Jesus is not received into the heart through Christ who is now "a life giving Spirit" .
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    25 Jan '12 14:151 edit
    Originally posted by jaywill
    [quote] but the verse states that its 'the force actuating upon ones mind', which transforms the inner man, this force being the Holy spirit and what in fact transpires is that appreciation for the sacrifice of the Christ percolates from the mind to the heart and the individual is transformed. That the personality is intended, or if you prefer the inner receive into the heart through Christ who is now [b]"a life giving Spirit" .[/b]
    its almost pointless attempting to discuss anything in a rational manner. I give up.
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    25 Jan '12 14:191 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    its almost pointless attempting to discuss anything in a rational manner. I give up.
    The "force" that Watchtower told you about is more than a "force".

    The Holy Spirit is Christ Himself in His pneumatic form as "life giving Spirit" .

    A non living FORCE does not give life. Electricity does not "give life".
    Life gives life.

    Watchtower doesn't know the Person in resurrection. So thier "rational" substititute is to read it and think "Paul must be talking about a force. Yea. That's it. The Holy small s spirit is a force."


    The Holy Spirit is GOD.
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    25 Jan '12 14:26
    Originally posted by jaywill
    The "force" that Watchtower told you about is more than a "force".

    The Holy Spirit is Christ Himself in His pneumatic form as [b]"life giving Spirit"
    .

    A non living FORCE does not give life. Electricity does not "give life".
    Life gives life.

    Watchtower doesn't know the Person in resurrection. So thier "rational" substititute is to read it ...[text shortened]... Yea. That's it. The Holy small s spirit is a force."


    The Holy Spirit is GOD.[/b]
    i have given up, i tried my best to stick rigidly to the scriptures and i am overwhelmed
    with elements not explicitly stated in the text. I tried my best to provide reasoning on
    the basis of the ancient text, but it was to no avail, it was useless and a pointless and
    futile exercise, under the weight of elements not explicitly stated in scripture, i really
    do give up, thanks for a truly traumatic experience.
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    25 Jan '12 17:15
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    i have given up, i tried my best to stick rigidly to the scriptures and i am overwhelmed
    with elements not explicitly stated in the text. I tried my best to provide reasoning on
    the basis of the ancient text, but it was to no avail, it was useless and a pointless and
    futile exercise, under the weight of elements not explicitly stated in scripture, i really
    do give up, thanks for a truly traumatic experience.
    😀
  12. Joined
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    25 Jan '12 21:341 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    i have given up, i tried my best to stick rigidly to the scriptures and i am overwhelmed
    with elements not explicitly stated in the text. I tried my best to provide reasoning on
    the basis of the ancient text, but it was to no avail, it was useless and a pointless and
    futile exercise, under the weight of elements not explicitly stated in scripture, i really
    do give up, thanks for a truly traumatic experience.
    i have given up, i tried my best to stick rigidly to the scriptures and i am overwhelmed with elements not explicitly stated in the text. I tried my best to provide reasoning on the basis of the ancient text, but it was to no avail, it was useless and a pointless and futile exercise, under the weight of elements not explicitly stated in scripture, i really do give up, thanks for a truly traumatic experience.


    I give plenty of support for my concepts in the bible. You just don't get it .

    And when it comes to Jesus being Michael the angel and the Word NOT being God, where is your sense of trauma with these LIES ?

    Where's the explicit support for these lies ?
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