Christian neutrality

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
not really the second link provides a plethora of historical references after 180 C.E.

Were there Christians who were involved in politics after 180 C.E.?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
FMF go and read some material...

I am more than willing to read the material in the Bible about "neutrality" and "sacred duty" that I have asked for 2-3 times, without response from you.

Originally posted by FMF
The fact that Christians have involved themselves in politics for two millennium clearly does not support your blanket assertions about "a conflict of interest and certain principles which conflicted with a Christians ability" to interact with others in political ways.

we are talking of early Christians, just sayin.

Originally posted by FMF
I am more than willing to read the material in the Bible about "neutrality" and "sacred duty" that I have asked for 2-3 times, without response from you.

I produced two links, you can read about which principles conflicted with a Christians ability to serve in the civil government there.

Originally posted by FMF
Were there Christians who were involved in politics after 180 C.E.?

I produced two links with extensive material on the subject.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I produced two links with extensive material on the subject.

Well judging by what your historian said in your OP, I take it he went on to describe how some early Christians became involved in politics after 180 C.E. It was all I wanted to know.

Originally posted by FMF
I am more than willing to read the material in the Bible about "neutrality" and "sacred duty" that I have asked for 2-3 times, without response from you.

civil government is secular in nature while Christianity is spiritual. Christians are aliens and strangers, just passing through this world (see 1 Peter 1:1). Their citizenship is in heaven (Philippians 3:20). Second, the state can look upon Christianity as competitive, even hostile to its authority. The Christian’s highest authority is God. In Rome, Caesar was “god.” Because of this, Romans considered Christians as atheists. Christianity was eventually seen as treasonous. Third, at times Christians were required to “obey God, rather than men” (see Acts 5:29), which openly confirmed the government’s suspicions. Fourth, government officials, either unconsciously or willingly, used their authority to actively oppose the church and to persecute Christians.

http://bible.org/seriespage/christian-and-civil-government-romans-131-7

Originally posted by FMF
Well judging by what your historian said in your OP, I take it he went on to describe how some early Christians became involved in politics after 180 C.E. It was all I wanted to know.

clearly you are either too lazy or unwilling to read the links that I provide, thank you,
its all I wanted to know.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I produced two links, you can read about which principles conflicted with a Christians ability to serve in the civil government there.

I think you accidentally copy pasted an almost identical answer to two different requests. I am not talking about my 180 C.E. query here. What I said was: I am more than willing to read the material in the Bible - if you'd like to point it out, and which I have now requested 3-4 times - about "neutrality" and "sacred duty".

Originally posted by FMF
I think you accidentally copy pasted an almost identical answer to two different requests. I am not talking about my 180 C.E. query here. What I said was: I am more than willing to read the material in the Bible - if you'd like to point it out, and which I have now requested 3-4 times - about "neutrality" and "sacred duty".

I have produced a quotation which mentions why the early Christians came into conflict
with civil governments, there are scriptural references which you may like to look up in
your own Bible if you have one. That you are either too lazy or unwilling to look also at
the links i provided, which themselves make reference to other reasons why the early
Christians came into conflict with civil governments on the basis of their understanding
of Christ teaching leads me to believe that once again you are merely intent on arguing
for arguments sake and are clearly uninterested in understanding any reasons other
than what you have proffered yourself with substantiation, I will be pleased if you
would waste someone else's time, thanks.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
civil government is secular in nature while Christianity is spiritual. Christians are aliens and strangers, just passing through this world (see 1 Peter 1:1). Their citizenship is in heaven (Philippians 3:20). Second, the state can look upon Christianity as competitive, even hostile to its authority. The Christian’s highest authority is God. In Rome, ...[text shortened]... persecute Christians.

http://bible.org/seriespage/christian-and-civil-government-romans-131-7

This is not a bible quote. It's a secondary source: some commentary that you happen to agree with and that millions and millions of Christians presumably don't. I am requesting the bible reference to "sacred duty" with regard to "neutrality".

Originally posted by FMF
This is not a bible quote. It's a secondary source: some commentary that you happen to agree with and that millions and millions of Christians presumably don't. I am requesting the bible reference to "sacred duty" with regard to "neutrality".

ummmmm see the numbers and abbreviations in parenthesis, they are references to
Biblical verses, just sayin and again we are talking of early Christians, again, you might
like to make yourself aware of the fact.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I have produced a quotation which mentions why the early Christians came into conflict with civil governments, there are scriptural references which you may like to look up in your own Bible if you have one.

Early Christians may have come into conflict with the Roman governments, and no wonder, i can get that - I didn't work for the Soeharto dictatorship when I was here and he was still in power - but early Christians not wanting to collaborate with the Roman government of their time is hardly a reason to not interact politically right across the board with respect to everything forever, surely. I didn't collaborate with the Soeharto dictatorship but it did not stop me from being a political being - as we all are - and interacting with others in a political way [although I haven't voted since 1983!] What about your claims that "neutrality" was a "sacred duty" in a sense that would still apply nowadays for example [as opposed to the circumstances in which early Christians were in conflict with the Romans]. Where is the bible quote that says that?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
...once again you are merely intent on arguing for arguments sake and are clearly uninterested in understanding any reasons other than what you have proffered yourself with substantiation, I will be pleased if you would waste someone else's time, thanks.

Oh. I have been rather of the opinion that we have been having a reasonably interesting discussion.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
ok.

Another aspect to consider is that Christians were openly persecuted by the Roman state and by local level government. Why would any Christian living under those conditions want to become a part of the same apparatus which is persecuting them? I know i wouldn't.