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    01 Nov '12 08:552 edits
    It is both scripturally and historically self evident that true Christians have always
    endeavoured to maintain complete neutrality in the worlds conflicts and its political
    struggles. The have not interfered with the rights of others to vote, to hold patriotic
    ceremonies, to run for political office, but they themselves have their own government,
    a heavenly one.

    (John 18:36) . . .Jesus answered: “My kingdom is no part of this world. If my
    kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not
    be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is, my kingdom is not from this source.”

    let us consider the matter historically, prior to the adoption of Christianity as a state
    religion by the Pagan emperor Constantine, secular historians have acknowledged,

    1.“Early Christianity was little understood and was regarded with little favour by
    those who ruled the pagan world. . . . Christians refused to share certain duties of
    Roman citizens. . . . They would not hold political office.” - On the Road to
    Civilization, A World History (Philadelphia, 1937), A. Heckel and J. Sigman, pp.
    237, 238.

    2.“The Christians stood aloof and distinct from the state, as a priestly and
    spiritual race, and Christianity seemed able to influence civil life only in that manner
    which, it must be confessed, is the purest, by practically endeavouring to instil more
    and more of holy feeling into the citizens of the state.” - The History of the Christian
    Religion and Church, During the Three First Centuries (New York, 1848), Augustus
    Neander, translated from German by H. J. Rose, p. 168.

    3.“They refused to take any active part in the civil administration or the military
    defence of the empire. . . . it was impossible that the Christians, without renouncing
    a more sacred duty, could assume the character of soldiers, of magistrates, or of
    princes.
    ” - History of Christianity (New York, 1891), Edward Gibbon, pp. 162, 163.

    4.“A careful review of all the information available goes to show that, until the time
    of Marcus Aurelius [Roman emperor from 161 to 180 C.E.], no Christian became
    a soldier; and no soldier, after becoming a Christian, remained in military
    service.
    ” - The Rise of Christianity (London, 1947), E. W. Barnes, p. 333.
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    01 Nov '12 09:021 edit
    I provide the above for the education of those who have sought to construe that a
    politically neutral stance is somehow exclusively the product of a mandate of Jehovahs
    Witnesses. Rather than try to refute the ludicrous assertion I will let these facts speak
    for themselves and let the forum decide for itself whether true christians were and are,
    politically neutral.
  3. SubscriberFMF
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    01 Nov '12 09:10
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    I provide the above for the education of those who have sought to construe that a politically neutral stance is somehow exclusively the product of a mandate of Jehovahs Witnesses.
    What other major Christian denomination agrees with Jehovah's Witnesses on this issue?
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    01 Nov '12 09:172 edits
    Originally posted by FMF
    What other major Christian denomination agrees with Jehovah's Witnesses on this issue?
    Seeing that we are referring to the matter historically, that is, with regard to the early
    Christians and their attitude towards secular government, will you please explain the
    relevance of modern denominations and their stance to the issue? To answer your
    question I do believe that Christidelphians are also politically neutral, as for others, I
    cannot say.
  5. Standard memberKellyJay
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    01 Nov '12 09:26
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    I provide the above for the education of those who have sought to construe that a
    politically neutral stance is somehow exclusively the product of a mandate of Jehovahs
    Witnesses. Rather than try to refute the ludicrous assertion I will let these facts speak
    for themselves and let the forum decide for itself whether true christians were and are,
    politically neutral.
    Christians I believe should stay out of politics or get into it, whatever they do they
    need to do it as unto the Lord. I'm not going to knock anyone who is fully persauded
    in their minds they should act one way over another. If they did anything other than
    what they feel they should or should not do it would be sin to them.
    Kelly
  6. SubscriberFMF
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    01 Nov '12 09:27
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Seeing that we are referring to the matter historically, that is, with regard to the early
    Christians and their attitude towards secular government, will you please explain the
    relevance of modern denominations and their stance to the issue? To answer your
    question I do believe that Christidelphians are also politically neutral, as for others, I
    cannot say.
    Well you said that the claim that it was a stance exclusive to Jehovah's Witnesses was something you reject. So, what historians have said about the early church centuries and centuries ago aside, what modern Christian denominations - apart from the Christidelphians that you have mentioned - agree with the Jehovah's Witnesses on 'Christian neutrality'?
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    01 Nov '12 09:311 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    Well you said that the claim that it was a stance exclusive to Jehovah's Witnesses was something you reject. So, what historians have said about the early church centuries and centuries ago aside, what modern Christian denominations - apart from the Christidelphians that you have mentioned - agree with the Jehovah's Witnesses on 'Christian neutrality'?
    If it is exclusive to Jehovah witnesses as you seem to be claiming, how will you explain the early churches neutral stance. Please explain.
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    01 Nov '12 09:33
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Christians I believe should stay out of politics or get into it, whatever they do they
    need to do it as unto the Lord. I'm not going to knock anyone who is fully persauded
    in their minds they should act one way over another. If they did anything other than
    what they feel they should or should not do it would be sin to them.
    Kelly
    Our government is a heavenly one, our leader resides in the heavens, its not of this
    earth.
  9. Standard memberRJHinds
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    01 Nov '12 09:34
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    It is both scripturally and historically self evident that true Christians have always
    endeavoured to maintain complete neutrality in the worlds conflicts and its political
    struggles. The have not interfered with the rights of others to vote, to hold patriotic
    ceremonies, to run for political office, but they themselves have their own governme ...[text shortened]... ned in military
    service.
    ” - The Rise of Christianity (London, 1947), E. W. Barnes, p. 333.[/b]
    It is my understanding that the Christians were considered enemies by most of the Roman rulers until Cinstantine. They were being constantly persecuted, like being fed to the lions. It is no wonder they would hide and not participate in the Roman government at that time.

    Christ's knigdom not being in this world has nothing to do with Christians not being able to participate in the governments of this world, for they still have to participate in this world while Christ is away. It is stupid not to stand up for Christians rights in government. I thank God that the founding Fathers of the United States of America were not Jehovah's Witnesses.
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    01 Nov '12 09:371 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    It is my understanding that the Christians were considered enemies by most of the Roman rulers until Cinstantine. They were being constantly persecuted, like being fed to the lions. It is no wonder they would hide and not participate in the Roman government at that time.

    Christ's knigdom not being in this world has nothing to do with Christians not bei ...[text shortened]... nk God that the founding Fathers of the United States of America were not Jehovah's Witnesses.
    Perhaps you might like to address the historical facts, is it your assertion that christians
    did not participate in civil government because they were scared of the Romans as you
    seem to be saying? That they were motivated out of fear? As for hiding, the scriptures
    make it clear that Christianity was preached throughout the Roman world, how did
    they do this while hiding away, please explain?
  11. SubscriberFMF
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    01 Nov '12 09:381 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    If it is exclusive to Jehovah witnesses as you seem to be claiming, how will you explain the early churches neutral stance. Please explain.
    I have not claimed that "it is exclusive to Jehovah's Witnesses". In the follow up post to your OP you said the OP was intended for "those who have sought to construe that a politically neutral stance is somehow exclusively the product of a mandate of Jehovah's Witnesses". I am not one these. In terms of Christianity today, apart from the Christadelphians who apparently only number about 50,000 worldwide, what major denominations agree with the Jehovah's Witnesses' stance on Christian neutrality. I am curious about how exclusive or how 'not exclusive' your organisation's stance is.
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    01 Nov '12 09:422 edits
    Originally posted by FMF
    I have not claimed that "it is exclusive to Jehovah's Witnesses". In your OP you said it was intended for "those who have sought to construe that a politically neutral stance is somehow exclusively the product of a mandate of Jehovah's Witnesses". I am not one these. In terms of Christianity today, apart from the Christadelphians who apparently only number about am curious about how exclusive or how 'not exclusive' your organisation's stance is.
    Therefore we can conclude that its not exclusive to Jehovah witnesses, that there is a
    historical precedent for remaining neutral, thank you for helping to establish this fact.
    As I stated I cannot think of any other organisation besides Christidelphians who are
    politically neutral.
  13. Standard memberRJHinds
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    01 Nov '12 09:44
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Seeing that we are referring to the matter historically, that is, with regard to the early
    Christians and their attitude towards secular government, will you please explain the
    relevance of modern denominations and their stance to the issue? To answer your
    question I do believe that Christidelphians are also politically neutral, as for others, I
    cannot say.
    Information on the Christidelphian cult:

    http://www.letusreason.org/Cults19.htm
  14. SubscriberFMF
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    01 Nov '12 09:481 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Therefore we can conclude that its not exclusive to Jehovah witnesses, that there is a
    historical precedent for remaining neutral, thank you for helping to establish this fact.
    As I stated I cannot think of any other organisation besides Christidelphians who are
    politically neutral.
    I can't imagine that you intend this thread to be not about whether Christians should be neutral nowadays. Because if it is about whether Christians should be neutral nowadays, while the circumstances and interpretations of Christians centuries ago are certainly interesting, surely the stance of major Christian denominations nowadays is relevant also.
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    01 Nov '12 09:49
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Information on the Christidelphian cult:

    http://www.letusreason.org/Cults19.htm
    I have met one or two christidelphians in my public ministry, I liked them, in fact, one
    Russian student who was selling pictures house to house told me he was a
    christidelphian, i invited him in and we played a little chess and had some coffee, he
    taught me the Benoni defence. I bought a picture of a wolf out of sympathy.
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