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29 Nov 19
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What a model and example the Apostle Paul was. And what a tremendous blessing to the church universal (not to mention the local assemblies) was the Apostle Paul.
As I duck and dodge the typical arrows from trolls, skeptics, and genuine examiners, I will try to get a few words in why Christians would do well to have MORE teachers like Paul.
(This does not imply there are none now.)
(Nor does this mean Paul was the only good teacher in the New Testament.)
(Nor does it mean "Paul was a perfect person." )
(Nor does it mean, "Paul did not reflect some of the aspects of the culture within which he lived." )
@sonship saidWhat a model and example Jesus Christ is. And what a tremendous blessing to the church universal (not to mention the local assemblies) is Christ.
What a model and example the Apostle Paul was. And what a tremendous blessing to the church universal (not to mention the local assemblies) was the Apostle Paul.
As I duck and dodge the typical arrows from trolls, skeptics, and genuine examiners, I will try to get a few words in why Christians would do well to have MORE teachers like Paul.
(This does not imply there ...[text shortened]... Nor does it mean, "Paul did not reflect some of the aspects of the culture within which he lived." )
As I duck and dodge the typical arrows from trolls, skeptics, and genuine examiners, I will try to get a few words in why Christians would do well to have MORE teachers like Jesus Christ.
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29 Nov 19
By an large, Paul was absolutely right to instruct Timothy his co-worker, to instruct certain co-workers to stop dissenting about the way Paul taught and to stop teaching differently from him.
"Even as I charged you, when I was going into Macedonia, to remain in Ephesus in order that you might charge certain ones not to teach different things." (1 Tim. 1:3)
Ie. " Timothy, you know that I have certain colleagues who are supposed to be laboring along side of me. Charge some of them who are dissenting to stop teaching different things from what I teach. This will cause the churches to decline, be distracted from Christ, wander off into vain talking and suffer.
Charge certain ones to come back and teach the saints the way they witnessed me, Paul, teach them. Tell them to STOP teaching differently. "
Arrogance or practicality?
Brute authoritarianism or genuine good advice?
I will argue - good, caring, God blessed advice to rescue the churches from decline and apostasy.
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29 Nov 19
What a model and example Jesus Christ is. And what a tremendous blessing to the church universal (not to mention the local assemblies) is Christ.
So I have to start here.
The implication of this bit of sarcasm is that Christ was not manifested in Paul. The implication is that "Jesus we like but Paul messed it all up."
The implication SEEMS to hold Christ in high regard. Too bad it is not genuine. But it takes time to see all of Rajk999's concepts to grasp that his opposition is not really to Paul but to Jesus.
Well, Paul was so faithful that he was one in whom Christ filled, saturated, spread into and permeated, fully effecting his personality and securing his consecration to an extraordinary degree.
"But when it pleased God, who set me apart from my mother's womb and called me through His grace, To reveal Himself in me that I might announce Him as the gospel among the Gentiles I did not confer with flesh and blood." (Gal. 1:15,16)
He was not disobedient to the heavenly vision.
The former persecutor became the foremost consecrated servant of Christ.
We would do well to have more sent ones like this man.
29 Nov 19
@sonship saidJesus is the way, the truth and the light. Not Paul
@Rajk999
What a model and example Jesus Christ is. And what a tremendous blessing to the church universal (not to mention the local assemblies) is Christ.
So I have to start here.
The implication of this bit of sarcasm is that Christ was not manifested in Paul. The implication is that "Jesus we like but Paul messed it all up."
The implication SE ...[text shortened]... he foremost consecrated servant of Christ.
We would do well to have more sent ones like this man.
Nothing is wrong with Paul. What is wrong is that you see if fit to twist his teachings. You extract the mouth worshiping parts and promote that alone as the way to the Kingdom of God.
Christ is untwistable hence your aversion for His teachings.
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I could have put money on it ...... always has to be one .
Paul's final writings show him instructing Timothy to charge certain ones to stop dissenting from him and stop teaching myths, genealogies, distracting things which were only leading the believers into vain talking and questionings about stuff rather not too closely related to spiritual life and spiritual growth in life.
" ... you might charge certain ones not to teach different things
Nor to give heed to myths and unending geneologies, which produce questionings RATHER THAN ... God's economy [dispensation], which is in faith. " (1 Tim. 1:3b-4)
In that day myths long Old Testament geneologies were being taught by some. Curious and perhaps interesting things. But Paul charged his colleagues that they had to teach the things related to God dispensing His life into man in the whole realm of faith.
These few things are just representative things. Today there exist hundreds or thousands perhaps of things people desire to be experts on to teach. The emphasis, Paul instructs, should not be on that which produces quesrtionings but God's dispensation, God's economy in the realm of faith.
The outcome should be deeper and more love and unity in the churches.
"But the end of the charge is love out of a pure heart and out of a good conscience and out of unfeigned faith; From which things some, having misaimed, have turned aside to vain talking." (v.5,6)
He was saying for certian ones to COME BACK to profitable ministry of Christ living in us in the realm of faith that LOVE may increase. Come back, he says, from VAIN TALKING.
Arrogance or great loving advice?
Authoritarian "king of the hill-ism" or the faithful love of a REAL spiritual parent, as it were?
29 Nov 19
@sonship saidYou hate the teachings of Christ and you have never encouraged fellow Christians to Keep the commandments. In fact you have discouraged it by suggesting that they are not necessary. Nowhere did Jesus say that.
@medullah
I could have put money on it ...... always has to be one .
Paul's final writings show him instructing Timothy to charge certain ones to stop dissenting from him and stop teaching myths, genealogies, distracting things which were only leading the believers into vain talking and questionings about stuff rather not too closely related to spiritua ...[text shortened]... ritarian "king of the hill-ism" or the faithful love of a REAL spiritual parent, as it were?
Keeping the commandments is CRITICAL FOR ETERNAL LIFE IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
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29 Nov 19
2 edits
@Rajk999
Christians would be well blessed with more servants of God like the Apostle Paul.
This thread is not going to be focused on YOU.
And it is not going to be focused on me.
Ie. what kind of dudes you and I are, as we trade personal barbs.
This thread is about the need for more teachers like the one Christ specifically appointed to be a herald and an apostle to the nations.
He ministered the Spirit. He ministered Christ the Person into people.
He planted Jesus in people. He watered the seed of Jesus in people.
He ministered divine life not just knowledge and not legalistic dead works of the law.
Some DESIRED to be LAW TEACHERS. Paul said Ie. "Come back to teach as you learned from my example. Minister the Person of Jesus dispensed into people's hearts and growing in their lives."
"God's economy ... From which things some, having misaimed, have turned ASIDE ... into vain talking,
Desiring to be teachers of the law, though they understand neither the things that they say, nor concerning what they confidently affirm." (See 1 Tim. 1:4-7)
29 Nov 19
@sonship saidNonsense. Jesus said it is those who keep His commandments it is those people who love him
@Rajk999
Christians would be well blessed with more servants of God like the Apostle Paul.
This thread is not going to be focused on YOU.
And it is not going to be focused on me.
Ie. what kind of dudes you and I are, as we trade personal barbs.
This thread is about the need for more teachers like the one Christ specifically appointed to be a herald and an apostle ...[text shortened]... ther the things that they say, nor concerning what they confidently affirm." (See 1 Tim. 1:4-7) [/b]
You promote a doctrine of NOT KEEPING the commandments therefore according to Jesus Christ you DO NOT LOVE HIM.
You talk about love. Your teacchings deny that you actually believe it.
29 Nov 19
@rajk999 saidThe commandments were part of the law. Jesus died showing that a perfect man could keep the law, the demands on Adam were not unreasonable. The law though, was under the law covenant, and Jesus established a new covenant, so that man was no longer under the law.
Nonsense. Jesus said it is those who keep His commandments it is those people who love him
You promote a doctrine of NOT KEEPING the commandments therefore according to Jesus Christ you DO NOT LOVE HIM.
You talk about love. Your teacchings deny that you actually believe it.
So the commandments that he gave us under new covenant are the ones we now focus on.
29 Nov 19
@Rajk999
There is nothing wrong with sonships opening proposition. What is wrong is that you are always on the attack Rajk and it isn’t attractive.
Why are you always trying to act in lofty ways and put people down? I don’t agree with everything that sonship says either , but I look for common ground to understand how he (and others) arrive at that perspective, and establish a dialogue.
The way that you tried to override him with your first post is pretty disgraceful really.
29 Nov 19
@medullah saidThe commandments of Christ and the Law of Moses were two different things. Get your facts correct. Keeping the commandments Christ is the way to the Kingdom of God.
The commandments were part of the law. Jesus died showing that a perfect man could keep the law, the demands on Adam were not unreasonable. The law though, was under the law covenant, and Jesus established a new covenant, so that man was no longer under the law.
So the commandments that he gave us under new covenant are the ones we now focus on.
These start in Matt 5 and continues throughout the ministry of Jesus Christ.
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. (Matthew 5:3-11 KJV)
29 Nov 19
@medullah saidMr Johnny come lately tell me what to do. I am attaching the man because he is proposing as he has done for over 12 years now that keeping the commandments of Christ is not necessary. If you agree with him that then is your problem.
@Rajk999
There is nothing wrong with sonships opening proposition. What is wrong is that you are always on the attack Rajk and it isn’t attractive.
Why are you always trying to act in lofty ways and put people down? I don’t agree with everything that sonship says either , but I look for common ground to understand how he (and others) arrive at that perspective, and es ...[text shortened]... alogue.
The way that you tried to override him with your first post is pretty disgraceful really.
What is disgraceful really is how you come here licking the butts of these Christians who preach a doctrine contrary to Christ. You probably see that and agree with me [secretly], but because your overriding objective here is the accumulation of friends, you lack the balls to stand up and agree with Christ. You are a disgrace.