1. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    27 Jan '14 01:06
    ...separation of Church and State.

    The American Colonists were strongly motivated to come here by a desire to worship God in their own way. In England, they were forced by the King to follow the dictates of the Church of England.

    That is exactly why the government should remain as neutral as possible when it comes to matters of religion. When government has its hand in, religion becomes nothing more than a tool government can use to control people. The government should not tell people what religion to practice, or what religion not to practice. The government should respect people's right to practice whatever religion they wish, within reason. (If your religion involves human sacrifice, then sorry, no freedom of religion for you.)

    If I were still a Christian, the last thing I would want is my government steering my church's doctrine. That isn't their place. That isn't their area of expertise.

    I would not lobby for God's name on the money, because the scripture says that you cannot serve both God and money. I would not want God's name in courthouses because governments can become corrupt and I would not want the name of God tarnished by association with a bad government.

    I would not want mandatory school prayer, because I would think that talking to God should be a personal thing, done when I need to speak to him, or he to me, and not when some 3rd party human dictates. I would also not want a teacher of another religion teaching my children to pray to Mecca on a rug.
  2. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    27 Jan '14 01:33
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    ...separation of Church and State.

    The American Colonists were strongly motivated to come here by a desire to worship God in their own way. In England, they were forced by the King to follow the dictates of the Church of England.

    That is exactly why the government should remain as neutral as possible when it comes to matters of religion. When gover ...[text shortened]... ould also not want a teacher of another religion teaching my children to pray to Mecca on a rug.
    "If I were still a Christian..." if you accepted God's Grace Gift of eternal salvation of your soul, how were able to return it?
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    27 Jan '14 02:233 edits
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    "If I were still a Christian..." if you accepted God's Grace Gift of eternal salvation of your soul, how were able to return it?
    Cancel my subscription to the resurrection
    Send my credentials to the house of detention
    I got some friends inside

    The Doors, "When the Music's Over"

    Everybody wants their ideology's tenets to be expressed in the laws, including the non-religious.
  4. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    27 Jan '14 02:50
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    "If I were still a Christian..." if you accepted God's Grace Gift of eternal salvation of your soul, how were able to return it?
    I wasn't able to return it. There was no one to return it to.
  5. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    27 Jan '14 02:532 edits
    Originally posted by JS357
    Cancel my subscription to the resurrection
    Send my credentials to the house of detention
    I got some friends inside

    The Doors, "When the Music's Over"

    Everybody wants their ideology's tenets to be expressed in the laws, including the non-religious.
    If eternal salvation was something man by man's efforts could achieve, then ipso facto eternal salvation of man's eternal soul would be something that man by man's efforts could lose. Religion is man by man's efforts attempting to gain the approval of God. Christianity is accepting the grace gift made possible by the Risen Christ's work, a substitutionary spiritual death (separation from God the Father for three hours while the sins of mankind were imputed to Him in sinless perfection and judged) at the Golgotha Crucifixion. The moment of faith alone in Christ alone God's Righteousness is judicially imputed to the individual believer's account along with a human spirit, enabling him or her to have a personal relationship with God in time and eternity. You become a member of Christ's Royal Family: once family, always family. Screw up, utilize 1 John 1: 9 provided for the restoration of fellowship. Ignore it, get disciplined. No one can undo or set aside what God has done!
  6. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    27 Jan '14 03:001 edit
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    I wasn't able to return it. There was no one to return it to.
    January 26, 2014 ---------------------------------------------------------------> [Grace Gift Return Desk] Reveal Hidden Content
    A figment of human imagination.
  7. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    27 Jan '14 20:29
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    If eternal salvation was something man by man's efforts could achieve, then ipso facto eternal salvation of man's eternal soul would be something that man by man's efforts could lose. Religion is man by man's efforts attempting to gain the approval of God. Christianity is accepting the grace gift made possible by the Risen Christ's work, a substitutiona ...[text shortened]... ation of fellowship. Ignore it, get disciplined. No one can undo or set aside what God has done!
    "Religion is the fashionable substitute for belief." -Oscar Wilde
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    27 Jan '14 20:58
    One thing is, if a government legislative body wants to pray in Jesus'[ name, then it should be allowed. That is what the original people wanted when they founded this country. Praying in Jesus' name as a legislative body neither forces people to pray or pray in Jesus' name. People are free to do what they want about prayer. In school, it is the same thing. If we don't accept that our original government leaders wanted to pray in Jesus' name, then that is what they intended to be able to do. So let us this do this without you rejecting their desires.

    Praying doesn't force anyone to do anything. If they prayed according to gods or leaders of other religions, and if that is what the original founders wanted, then that is what they should be allowed to do in human society. Praying to other gods doesn't force me to pray in that same way.

    However, not murdering someone is a teaching of the Bible which includes Jesus and salvation. Therefore, murdering should also be allowed if we are to be consistent with our rejection of spiritual beliefs. If we refuse the bible and any religious anti-murdering teaching, then we must allow murder in order to properly reject religion as human beings.

    I do not believe in murder, but I did not make that up myself. God, in the bible made that up for me. It isn't my teaching. It is God's teaching. Loving my neighbor as myself, isn't my teaching either. So, again our government doesn't have to do the same teaching so that it can properly reject God[s teaching.

    To be consistent in the "Modern View" of separation of church and state, the government needs to reject everything of the bible in order to properly run the government for all the peoples' sakes. However, this may decrease the size of federal government, and let people more locally govern their own actions by conscience or non-federal groups.

    Would this lack of federal government meddling allow slavery to be performed in a wide spread way.

    The problem of separation of church and state is that the founders of this country never intended to reject God in our federal government. The second problem is that God's title doesn't need to be taken off our money. Prayer in Jesus's name doesn't need to be removed from federal government.

    It isn't God that is wrong, but it is we who are wrong because we won't to reject God. God should not be left out of federal government, we should come back to God.
  9. Standard memberRJHinds
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    27 Jan '14 23:351 edit
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    ...separation of Church and State.

    The American Colonists were strongly motivated to come here by a desire to worship God in their own way. In England, they were forced by the King to follow the dictates of the Church of England.

    That is exactly why the government should remain as neutral as possible when it comes to matters of religion. When gover ...[text shortened]... ould also not want a teacher of another religion teaching my children to pray to Mecca on a rug.
    The separation of Church and State is a lie and trick of the devil. We want freedom to practice the Christian religion, no other kind of religion. Other religions are a lie and trick of the devil. We want the Christian religion in government not the other way around. The Satanic British government was controlling the Church of England. That is why my ancestors left there to find a better place to worship and why they fought for freedom from such an oppressive government that did not allow freedom of religion.
  10. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    28 Jan '14 00:16
    Originally posted by KingOnPoint
    One thing is, if a government legislative body wants to pray in Jesus'[ name, then it should be allowed. That is what the original people wanted when they founded this country. Praying in Jesus' name as a legislative body neither forces people to pray or pray in Jesus' name. People are free to do what they want about prayer. In school, it is the sam ...[text shortened]... 't to reject God. God should not be left out of federal government, we should come back to God.
    No, the founding fathers did NOT want to replace the Church of England with a new orthodoxy that all must follow. That was the whole point - every individual should be able to worship God in their own way. A legislative body praying to a specific god in an official capacity is completely contrary to that intention.

    Praying DOES force people to do things when it's mandated for all members of a group. It forces the group members who don't agree with the prayer or believe in the god to either fake it - pretend to accept it - or buck the system and be the Guy Who Has A Problem With Stuff Everyone Else Just Does.

    I have no issue with people praying on their own time. Sure, do all you want; just don't drag anyone in who's not willing.

    You don't need the Bible to outlaw murder. There are plenty of other non-Christian societies that have outlawed it.

    To be consistent in the "Modern View" of separation of church and state, the government needs to reject everything of the bible in order to properly run the government for all the peoples' sakes.
    No, that is wrong. They don't need to reject anything in the Bible. They just need to not show favoritism to any religion while they are on the job.

    On slavery, may I remind you that many of the US slaveholders were Christian people. They were easily able to integrate slavery in with their religion. Religion doesn't make you any more, or less, moral in general. The ones who are already wicked use it to rationalize their deeds, while the ones who are already good point to the commandments to help others, be kind, etc.
  11. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    28 Jan '14 00:17
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The separation of Church and State is a lie and trick of the devil. We want freedom to practice the Christian religion, no other kind of religion. Other religions are a lie and trick of the devil. We want the Christian religion in government not the other way around. The Satanic British government was controlling the Church of England. That is why my an ...[text shortened]... ey fought for freedom from such an oppressive government that did not allow freedom of religion.
    If you had been a Church of England member, you would have been defending them against all the other 'devil' religions. You think you have a mind to lead, but the reality is, you're just a follower.
  12. Standard memberRJHinds
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    28 Jan '14 01:41
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    If you had been a Church of England member, you would have been defending them against all the other 'devil' religions. You think you have a mind to lead, but the reality is, you're just a follower.
    Yes, a follower of Christ. That is what is called a Christian.
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    28 Jan '14 03:13
    In Matthew Jesus commanded that infidelity is the only allowable reason for divorce. I wonder what percentage of modern Christians would like their nation's laws to enforce that.
  14. Standard memberRBHILL
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    28 Jan '14 03:181 edit
    Some good articles:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/billflax/2011/07/09/the-true-meaning-of-separation-of-church-and-state/

    http://www.tgm.org/mythofseparation.html

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=separation%20of%20church%20and%20state

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state

    http://www.chattanoogan.com/2012/9/17/234470/Meaning-Of-Separation-Of-Church-And.aspx

    The best one: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/987191/posts
    Sample: NOT SEPARATION OF GOD FROM STATE

    by Fr. Bill McCarthy, MSA

    Our Founding Fathers

    Our Founding Fathers set this great nation of ours upon the twin towers of religion and morality. Our first president, George Washington, said that anyone who would attack these twin towers could not possibly consider themselves to be a loyal American. Not only did they set us up as a nation under God, but a nation founded upon the Judaic-Christian principles summarized in the words, "The laws of nature and the laws of nature’s God," words that we find in the Declaration of Independence.

    Google: the real reason for separation of church and state
  15. Standard memberRBHILL
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    28 Jan '14 03:19
    Originally posted by Paul Dirac II
    In Matthew Jesus commanded that infidelity is the only allowable reason for divorce. I wonder what percentage of modern Christians would like their nation's laws to enforce that.
    I know a lot of the divorced people. And that is basically the reason why they all got divorced.
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