Compatibility

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Apparently personal experience is not worth much ,as far as any sort of evidence goes.

Personal testimony is sometimes ok when we're considering things which lie safely within the realms of what is physically possible. It should be considered worthless when discussing magic, miracles, ghosts, and so on...

Originally posted by Agerg
Personal testimony is sometimes ok when we're considering things which lie safely within the realms of what is physically possible. It should be considered worthless when discussing magic, miracles, ghosts, and so on...

The reason being that in the case of magic, miracles, ghosts, ect, the explanation that the
person with the personal experience is wrong (in whatever form) is vastly more likely than
the claimed thing being true.

Thus you can't claim this as evidence for it as other explanations are more likely.

Valid evidence for something extraordinary needs to be in of itself extraordinary, and
only explicable by the thing postulated to explain it (or by the thing posited and things less likely)
So a wizard, or fairy would require proof that would also be explicable by god but god is less
likely than the fairy or wizard. It could not however be proved by something that could also be
explained by something more likely than the fairy or wizard.

Originally posted by googlefudge
The reason being that in the case of magic, miracles, ghosts, ect, the explanation that the
person with the personal experience is wrong (in whatever form) is vastly more likely than
the claimed thing being true.

Thus you can't claim this as evidence for it as other explanations are more likely.

Valid evidence for something extraordinary needs ...[text shortened]... by something that could also be
explained by something more likely than the fairy or wizard.

Maybe, like Yahshua (Jesus) rising from the dead just as He predicted.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Maybe, like Yahshua (Jesus) rising from the dead just as He predicted.

Well, first no because I can think of possible explanations for the stated observation
that don't require god.

And also we have second or third hand accounts written by people with a bias 2000 years
ago.

It is much more likely that they made it up, or were duped, than it actually happened.

And if it happened it still wouldn't be proof of god.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Well, first no because I can think of possible explanations for the stated observation
that don't require god.

And also we have second or third hand accounts written by people with a bias 2000 years
ago.

It is much more likely that they made it up, or were duped, than it actually happened.

And if it happened it still wouldn't be proof of god.

I know it is not proof to you. I was referring to the people who
witnessed the crucificxion and burial. Then upon returning to
the tomb where He was layed saw only His face cloth and the
linen He had been wrapped with. Then later He appeared to
them and talked and ate with them and showed His hands and
feet to them and they even touched Him. Don't you think
that would be enough to convince them. Maybe, even enough
to face death rather than recant their belief.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I know it is not proof to you. I was referring to the people who
witnessed the crucificxion and burial. Then upon returning to
the tomb where He was layed saw only His face cloth and the
linen He had been wrapped with. Then later He appeared to
them and talked and ate with them and showed His hands and
feet to them and they even touched Him. Don't y ...[text shortened]... be enough to convince them. Maybe, even enough
to face death rather than recant their belief.

Possibly at the time, given they couldn't think of an alternative (and presuming of course it
actually happened which is a big presumption)

However I can think of many more likely alternatives.

So for me it would not be proof of god.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Possibly at the time, given they couldn't think of an alternative (and presuming of course it
actually happened which is a big presumption)

However I can think of many more likely alternatives.

So for me it would not be proof of god.

I guess I will just have to keep you in that category with Satan.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I guess I will just have to keep you in that category with Satan.

I love the fact that you keep insulting people and then say, 'don't get offended'
'I'm just a simple Texan, who never learned to debate formally, it's just how we do things.'

As far as I understand it you consider satan to be the root of all evil.

How can I possibly not consider it insulting or offensive for you to consider me in the same
category as satan.

Fundamentally your god doesn't care how people behave, only that the believe in him.

You can sin to your hearts content, but so long as you believe in god and repent on your
deathbed your fine, strait into heaven.

Live a perfectly wonderful, good, an giving life, thinking of nothing but others, but don't
believe in god.... and your one with satan and will burn for all eternity in hell.


Your god has an ego problem, as explicitly stated in the bible.


If you think I deserve to spend an eternity being tortured in hell simply for not believing in or
worshipping a god that chooses to hide all evidence of his existence.
Then I don't think your moral values are really up to much.

Originally posted by googlefudge
I love the fact that you keep insulting people and then say, 'don't get offended'
'I'm just a simple Texan, who never learned to debate formally, it's just how we do things.'

As far as I understand it you consider satan to be the root of all evil.

How can I possibly not consider it insulting or offensive for you to consider me in the same
categ vidence of his existence.
Then I don't think your moral values are really up to much.

Don't be so serious. Don't you see the humor in it?
I was just trying to make a point with a little humor.
I did not mean it in an insulting way that you were as evil
as Satan, only comparing your belief with Satan and his
angels.

P.S. It is easy to believe if you put your mind to it.

Originally posted by RJHinds
P.S. It is easy to believe if you put your mind to it.

Yes. For thousands of years the lazy took the "easy" option and believed whatever they were told.

Much harder to question what we are told and use that miracle of evolution the human mind.

(Or put another way: use your god-given brain, not to is surely a sin!)

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Yes. For thousands of years the lazy took the "easy" option and believed whatever they were told.

Much harder to [b]question what we are told and use that miracle of evolution the human mind.

(Or put another way: use your god-given brain, not to is surely a sin!)[/b]

Now we have the Holy Bible translated in our own language and we can
even check the orignal language if we choose. And with the help of
the Holy Spirit we should be able to come to the knowledge of the truth
without having to just accept what we are told.

Originally posted by Agerg
I stand by what I said. I acknowledge that personal testimonies along with other forms of `evidence' compel some people to believe; for that reason I paired "evidence" with "valid".
Neither I nor any other (sane) person need suppose say they're lying, we can simply suppose their recall or evaluation of these personal experiences doesn't match what actually h ...[text shortened]... n than to assume that for each person the laws of physics didn't apply in some instance.

I don't blame you for rejecting the personal experience of others. I did the same thing for 30 years. I was saying that once someone does have their own personal experiences, that person will be affected by it. Until you have your own personal experience, I expect nothing but for you to remain in a state of disbelief.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Well, first no because I can think of possible explanations for the stated observation
that don't require god.

And also we have second or third hand accounts written by people with a bias 2000 years
ago.

It is much more likely that they made it up, or were duped, than it actually happened.

And if it happened it still wouldn't be proof of god.

1. You can splain anything away. In fact, I get a kick out of programs on TV which try to splain how the ark of the covenant was some sort of mechanical device capable of miracles or how earthquakes and such caused the Red Sea to split in two for Moses and the Israelites at just the right time.

2. Who is not biased? No one, that's who.

3. Ok, so all of the disciples were duped. They then went out and gave their lives to spread their duped message which coincidently spread into a world religion of equally duped people.

4. And what would constitute proof? You could just say that you were duped like the disciples.

Originally posted by Agerg
Personal testimony is sometimes ok when we're considering things which lie safely within the realms of what is physically possible. It should be considered worthless when discussing magic, miracles, ghosts, and so on...

Worthless? Maybe worthless as hard evidence, but indenspensible as a subject of what the scientists are going to investigate. In the areas of psycic research how else what they know which direction to pursue if it weren't for the claims of "psycics" and such?

True mystics/Divas/Buddhas dont need any evidence to tell them where they stand in relation to the universe - they have an intimate knowledge of this, but it can only be hinted at with words, (often peotic words), it can never be fully expressed.
It is only those "in betweeners" with religon/spirituality , who need proof for their God or whatever. You cant be an inbetweener with religon/spirituality - if you find a spark and a road to take, you should follow that road to the end. If you chop and change ideologies,ie take a different road halfway through the other, then it is worthless. The worth of spiritual practice is only fully realized at the end. There may be some "wonderous" little experiences on the way , to spur you on, but in the end, these are nothing compared to the seat of enlightenment which awaits us all