Contrasting the Father and the Son

Originally posted by ahosyney
I don't want to appear rude, but I have to ask:

Are they different?

This is like asking me if my soul and body are different. They are in one aspect but on the other hand it makes me who I am which is one person. Christ was once asked by his disciples if he could show them the Father. His response was that if they had seen and heard him, they had seen and heard the Father as well.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Your Christianity is a Man-centered death cult. The idea that some 3 O God created the vast universe just so he could have inferior creatures grovel before him for all eternity is bizarre. And the idea that to do this he had to somehow manifest some aspect of himself onto this insignificant blue ball so it could die and magically come back to impress cre ...[text shortened]... e Midianites or the folks at Jericho how "spiritual" their treatment was in the Old Testament.

If Christianity is a death cult like you claim it is why then is it one of the only voices in the world opposing the culture of death in terms of abortion, euthenasia, etc.?

Originally posted by whodey
If Christianity is a death cult like you claim it is why then is it one of the only voices in the world opposing the culture of death in terms of abortion, euthenasia, etc.?

😴😴 "Culture of death" is a propaganda phrase used by fanatics like yourself to attempt to smear others who believe in human freedom and autonomy.

You've said yourself that without Jesus' death and resurrection, human life is meaningless. Thus, Jesus' words don't mean anything; only his "conquest of death" does. That makes your belief system centered on death and particulary the fear of death. To me, that's a death cult. There are other belief systems like Taoism, Buddhism and others, where death isn't important at all.

Originally posted by no1marauder
😴😴 "Culture of death" is a propaganda phrase used by fanatics like yourself to attempt to smear others who believe in human freedom and autonomy.

You've said yourself that without Jesus' death and resurrection, human life is meaningless. Thus, Jesus' words don't mean anything; only his "conquest of death" does. That makes your belief sys r belief systems like Taoism, Buddhism and others, where death isn't important at all.

When I say that our lives are meaningless without Christ I say that with two thoughts in mind. The first of which is that he breaths new life into me in my present life, much in the same way I might be inclined to say that my life was meaningless before I discovered a woman to love as a life partner. Christ said that he not only came to give us life eternal, but also that we might have life more abundantly in this present world. The second reason I say that my life is meaningless without him is that I am dying. All that I am would vanish forever if it not for Christ. God breaths life into me in this present life and will breath life into me when I am resurrected. Your interpretation is that this is a death cult. I, of coarse, interpret it as being the opposite.

Ironically, if God is real and all powerful you and he are in agreement in terms of having your freedom and autonomy. You have your freedom to do as you wish.

In terms of death being meaningless, however, I would have to disagree. I know of no one who is facing death that thinks it is meaningless.

Originally posted by whodey
When I say that our lives are meaningless without Christ I say that with two thoughts in mind. The first of which is that he breaths new life into me in my present life, much in the same way I might be inclined to say that my life was meaningless before I discovered a woman to love as a life partner. Christ said that he not only came to give us life eternal ...[text shortened]... , I would have to disagree. I know of no one who is facing death that thinks it is meaningless.

whodey: I know of no one who is facing death that thinks it is meaningless.

Whatever your limited personal knowledge is, it is an utterly common belief in the world that an individual's death has no bearing on any ultimate fate of the universe and is of little importance. That you base your entire theology on your personal fear of death just reinforces my point that Christianity (at least the form you believe in) is a death cult for frightened people.

Whether your God is real or not (it is almost certain he is not real), has no bearing on my my freedom and autonomy. I have it and it cannot legitimately be taken away even by religious fanatics.

Originally posted by no1marauder
whodey: I know of no one who is facing death that thinks it is meaningless.

Whatever your limited personal knowledge is, it is an utterly common belief in the world that an individual's death has no bearing on any ultimate fate of the universe and is of little importance. That you base your entire theology on your personal fear of death just ...[text shortened]... om and autonomy. I have it and it cannot legitimately be taken away even by religious fanatics.

Forgive me for assuming that everyone fears death to some degree. I suppose I have assumed this based upon my own experiences and, therefore, can only speak for myself. So what about you, do you fear death?

Originally posted by whodey
Forgive me for assuming that everyone fears death to some degree. I suppose I have assumed this based upon my own experiences and, therefore, can only speak for myself. So what about you, do you fear death?

Not enough to believe in a fairy tale.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Not enough to believe in a fairy tale.

So death has some meaning for you as it does for me?

Originally posted by whodey
So death has some meaning for you as it does for me?

Of course but I, like most people, am willing to risk death for many reasons. Thus, death doesn't grip me with sufficient terror to make me wish to believe in non-existent entities to rescue me from its consequences. What it's ultimate consequences are to me are, of course, unknown to me, so it would be more a fear of the unknown than of non-existence.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Of course but I, like most people, am willing to risk death for many reasons. Thus, death doesn't grip me with sufficient terror to make me wish to believe in non-existent entities to rescue me from its consequences. What it's ultimate consequences are to me are, of course, unknown to me, so it would be more a fear of the unknown than of non-existence.

So you think it possible that you may continue to exist in some form after death?

Originally posted by whodey
So you think it possible that you may continue to exist in some form after death?

Yes, I think it's possible.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Yes, I think it's possible.

So it appears that you as well I have a cetain degree of hope/faith that we will live eternally. I started a new thread about the subject because I find it interesting. Join me if you like.

Originally posted by whodey
So it appears that you as well I have a cetain degree of hope/faith that we will live eternally. I started a new thread about the subject because I find it interesting. Join me if you like.

I don't have hope/faith that we will live eternally. I grant it's possibility, nothing more. It would make things more interesting, but I'm not counting on it.

Originally posted by no1marauder
I don't have hope/faith that we will live eternally. I grant it's possibility, nothing more. It would make things more interesting, but I'm not counting on it.

Do you have theories as to its possibility or is it simply wishfull thinking on your part?

Originally posted by whodey
Do you have theories as to its possibility or is it simply wishfull thinking on your part?

I’m, of course, not attempting to answer for No.1 here—although I think this is an area where our thinking is close.

I have no fear of death. I suspect that I will be sad to die, and will resist it; but then that might depend on the circumstances at the time.

My existence was manifest naturally out of natural being, of which I am. Like a wave on the ocean (or a stream in the ocean), I suspect that I will simply return, and that all that I am in terms of a personal existence will simply dissipate into the ocean whence it arose.

There may be some kind of continuance of something of that individual existence—I don’t know enough to say that it is impossible. I just think it unlikely. Either way, I have no fear.