Could it have done more humanly ?

Jesus had to be crucified because that is what God wanted. The shedding of blood was all that had to be done so that God the Father could forgive mankind for the mess up in the Garden . Why then did the deciples not kill Jesus in a more human way than the hanging from a cross agony ? I've never understood the need for the drama of the Romans and Judas and the trial and all when it could have been done by those close with Jesus . Why the pretending that it all just happened and making villians of those that completed the will of God ?

Originally posted by buckky
Jesus had to be crucified because that is what God wanted. The shedding of blood was all that had to be done so that God the Father could forgive mankind for the mess up in the Garden . Why then did the deciples not kill Jesus in a more human way than the hanging from a cross agony ? I've never understood the need for the drama of the Romans and Judas and the ...[text shortened]... tending that it all just happened and making villians of those that completed the will of God ?

Feeling better?

Originally posted by buckky
Jesus had to be crucified because that is what God wanted. The shedding of blood was all that had to be done so that God the Father could forgive mankind for the mess up in the Garden . Why then did the deciples not kill Jesus in a more human way than the hanging from a cross agony ? I've never understood the need for the drama of the Romans and Judas and the ...[text shortened]... tending that it all just happened and making villians of those that completed the will of God ?

Jesus had to be crucified because that is what God wanted. The shedding of blood was all that had to be done so that God the Father could forgive mankind for the mess up in the Garden .

You seem to take as a given that this makes sense. Are you sure you're asking the right question?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]Jesus had to be crucified because that is what God wanted. The shedding of blood was all that had to be done so that God the Father could forgive mankind for the mess up in the Garden .

You seem to take as a given that this makes sense. Are you sure you're asking the right question?[/b]

None of it makes sense. That is why I'm pointing out just how crazy the story is.

Originally posted by buckky
Jesus had to be crucified because that is what God wanted. The shedding of blood was all that had to be done so that God the Father could forgive mankind for the mess up in the Garden . Why then did the deciples not kill Jesus in a more human way than the hanging from a cross agony ? I've never understood the need for the drama of the Romans and Judas and the ...[text shortened]... tending that it all just happened and making villians of those that completed the will of God ?

you could look at it from a different perspective. god deemed it necessary that his son come to us and teach us hippie stuff. he knew we would kill him because of course we will, but his teachings, his sacrifice would be remembered.

so we could say that god never intended his son to be murdered. it was simply a highly probable outcome to jesus coming into this world and deemed as worth it by god and by jesus.

as such, we put less emphasis on a death that could be avoided, that wasn't necessary and so on. and we put more emphasis on jesus' life, the way he lived it, what he accomplished and the lesson that one should do what is right even if the outcome for him might be less favorable.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
.....he knew we would kill him because of course we will,........

I disagree. If God had sent him to a nicer society than his 'chosen people', they would have let him live.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I disagree. If God had sent him to a nicer society than his 'chosen people', they would have let him live.

That's ridiculous and you know it.

the "niceness" of a society has nothing to do with the execution of people who threaten it. Or are you saying the Brits would not have executed Guy Fawkes or the French rebels not beheaded the aristocracy for examples?

Originally posted by divegeester
That's ridiculous and you know it.

the "niceness" of a society has nothing to do with the execution of people who threaten it. Or are you saying the Brits would not have executed Guy Fawkes or the French rebels not beheaded the aristocracy for examples?

Do all societies have a death penalty? Did Jesus try to blow up the houses of parliament? Would the French rebels have executed someone who tried to blow up their houses of parliament? Would modern day Britain execute a Guy Fawkes?
French rebels and medieval Britain are your best examples of 'nice society'?
Is it your claim that Jesus would have been threatening to every society in an equal manner?
Jesus was threatening to the Jews specifically because of their religion and his teachings contradicted them, just as I am threatening to you.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I disagree. If God had sent him to a nicer society than his 'chosen people', they would have let him live.

like what society?

maybe the celts, who were a warrior society and beheaded their enemies to steal their souls?

maybe jesus should have been chinese or japanese, a country with much more rigid social structures, where a peasant was not allowed to leave his village.

maybe he should have been a hippie, 2000 years later, if hippies would have been formed and the world wasn't the United States of Mongol Khanates.

how about jesus be sent to any of the polytheist cultures and be killed from the start by a follower of khali for example.

i disagree with your disagreement. it seems very poorly thought.

Originally posted by divegeester
That's ridiculous and you know it.

the "niceness" of a society has nothing to do with the execution of people who threaten it. Or are you saying the Brits would not have executed Guy Fawkes or the French rebels not beheaded the aristocracy for examples?

the analogy would be better formed: "what culture would not have executed guy fawkes after blowing up their seat of power"

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
maybe the celts, who were a warrior society and beheaded their enemies to steal their souls?

Your as bad as divegeester. You looked for the worst society you could think of, then chose an analogy that didn't fit (enemies). Its as good as an admission that I am right.

maybe jesus should have been chinese or japanese, a country with much more rigid social structures, where a peasant was not allowed to leave his village.
He could have been born a son of the emperor. See, problem solved.

i disagree with your disagreement. it seems very poorly thought.
No, your claim was poorly thought, as I can see you realise, hence the wild attempts at justifying it. Did I say there was no worse society for Jesus to be born into? No. Yet you think you have refuted my point by listing worse societies?

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
the analogy would be better formed: "what culture would not have executed guy fawkes after blowing up their seat of power"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Sheikh_Mohammed
Currently in military custody.
OK, the pentagon isn't 'the seat of power', but its pretty close.

Oh, and Guy Fawkes was not successful.

Which seat of power did Jesus blow up?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Your as bad as divegeester. You looked for the worst society you could think of, then chose an analogy that didn't fit (enemies). Its as good as an admission that I am right.

[b]maybe jesus should have been chinese or japanese, a country with much more rigid social structures, where a peasant was not allowed to leave his village.
He could have be ...[text shortened]... Jesus to be born into? No. Yet you think you have refuted my point by listing worse societies?[/b]

You looked for the worst society you could think of, then chose an analogy that didn't fit (enemies).
you choose one then. i hear the inuits are very nice. i am sure jesus would have been better off there. but i don't wish to influence you. you pick a society where it would have been a low probability that he would be killed for spreading his revolutionary message and his message would get across europe and influence the following centuries.

Your as bad as divegeester.
i am sure this comparisson was indeed thought of. i refuse to comment until you give me details. perhaps being as bad as divegester is a good thing.

Its as good as an admission that I am right.
yes, i remember arguments like these from the fights i had on the playground when i was 8. let's pretend you didn't say that.

Did I say there was no worse society for Jesus to be born into? No.
no you didn't. and you also missed my point.
you said he could have been born in a better society. if you claim such a society existed and jesus being born in it could have not gotten him killed while still spreading christianity, please let us know what that society is.

if you are claiming simply that he should have been born in a hypothetical nicer society, i counter with all society should have been nicer and jesus wouldn't have had to be born.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
like what society?

maybe the celts, who were a warrior society and beheaded their enemies to steal their souls?

maybe jesus should have been chinese or japanese, a country with much more rigid social structures, where a peasant was not allowed to leave his village.

maybe he should have been a hippie, 2000 years later, if hippies would have been f ...[text shortened]... ower of khali for example.

i disagree with your disagreement. it seems very poorly thought.

Here is a big problem: This is supposed to be a message for all mankind. But it was told in a tiny tribe and still 2000 years later some folks on Earth have never heard of and never did and never will hear of this Jesus dude. The whole thing reeks of self fulfilling prophecy, the 'coming' of JC supposedly in a prophecy thousands of years before.

It could just as well have been a dude coming along and thinking hey, I could be that one. Yes, I think I am. No, I KNOW I am......

And now 2000 years later, only about 15% of humanity has been duped into this fairy tale. Not a good result for a supposed omniscient god.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
you pick a society

Zambia.

... and his message would get across europe and influence the following centuries.
Clever, clever, throw in a strawman why don't you.

no you didn't. and you also missed my point. you said he could have been born in a better society. if you claim such a society existed and jesus being born in it could have not gotten him killed while still spreading christianity, please let us know what that society is.
That was your point? You had a funny way of making it. Seriously, how do you get from your Celts comment to that?

if you are claiming simply that he should have been born in a hypothetical nicer society, i counter with all society should have been nicer and jesus wouldn't have had to be born.
I am claiming simply that your original claim is blatantly false.