01 Apr 13
Jesus had to be crucified because that is what God wanted. The shedding of blood was all that had to be done so that God the Father could forgive mankind for the mess up in the Garden . Why then did the deciples not kill Jesus in a more human way than the hanging from a cross agony ? I've never understood the need for the drama of the Romans and Judas and the trial and all when it could have been done by those close with Jesus . Why the pretending that it all just happened and making villians of those that completed the will of God ?
01 Apr 13
Originally posted by buckkyFeeling better?
Jesus had to be crucified because that is what God wanted. The shedding of blood was all that had to be done so that God the Father could forgive mankind for the mess up in the Garden . Why then did the deciples not kill Jesus in a more human way than the hanging from a cross agony ? I've never understood the need for the drama of the Romans and Judas and the ...[text shortened]... tending that it all just happened and making villians of those that completed the will of God ?
01 Apr 13
Originally posted by buckkyJesus had to be crucified because that is what God wanted. The shedding of blood was all that had to be done so that God the Father could forgive mankind for the mess up in the Garden .
Jesus had to be crucified because that is what God wanted. The shedding of blood was all that had to be done so that God the Father could forgive mankind for the mess up in the Garden . Why then did the deciples not kill Jesus in a more human way than the hanging from a cross agony ? I've never understood the need for the drama of the Romans and Judas and the ...[text shortened]... tending that it all just happened and making villians of those that completed the will of God ?
You seem to take as a given that this makes sense. Are you sure you're asking the right question?
02 Apr 13
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneNone of it makes sense. That is why I'm pointing out just how crazy the story is.
[b]Jesus had to be crucified because that is what God wanted. The shedding of blood was all that had to be done so that God the Father could forgive mankind for the mess up in the Garden .
You seem to take as a given that this makes sense. Are you sure you're asking the right question?[/b]
02 Apr 13
Originally posted by buckkyyou could look at it from a different perspective. god deemed it necessary that his son come to us and teach us hippie stuff. he knew we would kill him because of course we will, but his teachings, his sacrifice would be remembered.
Jesus had to be crucified because that is what God wanted. The shedding of blood was all that had to be done so that God the Father could forgive mankind for the mess up in the Garden . Why then did the deciples not kill Jesus in a more human way than the hanging from a cross agony ? I've never understood the need for the drama of the Romans and Judas and the ...[text shortened]... tending that it all just happened and making villians of those that completed the will of God ?
so we could say that god never intended his son to be murdered. it was simply a highly probable outcome to jesus coming into this world and deemed as worth it by god and by jesus.
as such, we put less emphasis on a death that could be avoided, that wasn't necessary and so on. and we put more emphasis on jesus' life, the way he lived it, what he accomplished and the lesson that one should do what is right even if the outcome for him might be less favorable.
Originally posted by twhiteheadThat's ridiculous and you know it.
I disagree. If God had sent him to a nicer society than his 'chosen people', they would have let him live.
the "niceness" of a society has nothing to do with the execution of people who threaten it. Or are you saying the Brits would not have executed Guy Fawkes or the French rebels not beheaded the aristocracy for examples?
02 Apr 13
Originally posted by divegeesterDo all societies have a death penalty? Did Jesus try to blow up the houses of parliament? Would the French rebels have executed someone who tried to blow up their houses of parliament? Would modern day Britain execute a Guy Fawkes?
That's ridiculous and you know it.
the "niceness" of a society has nothing to do with the execution of people who threaten it. Or are you saying the Brits would not have executed Guy Fawkes or the French rebels not beheaded the aristocracy for examples?
French rebels and medieval Britain are your best examples of 'nice society'?
Is it your claim that Jesus would have been threatening to every society in an equal manner?
Jesus was threatening to the Jews specifically because of their religion and his teachings contradicted them, just as I am threatening to you.
02 Apr 13
Originally posted by twhiteheadlike what society?
I disagree. If God had sent him to a nicer society than his 'chosen people', they would have let him live.
maybe the celts, who were a warrior society and beheaded their enemies to steal their souls?
maybe jesus should have been chinese or japanese, a country with much more rigid social structures, where a peasant was not allowed to leave his village.
maybe he should have been a hippie, 2000 years later, if hippies would have been formed and the world wasn't the United States of Mongol Khanates.
how about jesus be sent to any of the polytheist cultures and be killed from the start by a follower of khali for example.
i disagree with your disagreement. it seems very poorly thought.
02 Apr 13
Originally posted by divegeesterthe analogy would be better formed: "what culture would not have executed guy fawkes after blowing up their seat of power"
That's ridiculous and you know it.
the "niceness" of a society has nothing to do with the execution of people who threaten it. Or are you saying the Brits would not have executed Guy Fawkes or the French rebels not beheaded the aristocracy for examples?
02 Apr 13
Originally posted by ZahlanziYour as bad as divegeester. You looked for the worst society you could think of, then chose an analogy that didn't fit (enemies). Its as good as an admission that I am right.
maybe the celts, who were a warrior society and beheaded their enemies to steal their souls?
maybe jesus should have been chinese or japanese, a country with much more rigid social structures, where a peasant was not allowed to leave his village.
He could have been born a son of the emperor. See, problem solved.
i disagree with your disagreement. it seems very poorly thought.
No, your claim was poorly thought, as I can see you realise, hence the wild attempts at justifying it. Did I say there was no worse society for Jesus to be born into? No. Yet you think you have refuted my point by listing worse societies?
02 Apr 13
2 edits
Originally posted by Zahlanzihttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Sheikh_Mohammed
the analogy would be better formed: "what culture would not have executed guy fawkes after blowing up their seat of power"
Currently in military custody.
OK, the pentagon isn't 'the seat of power', but its pretty close.
Oh, and Guy Fawkes was not successful.
Which seat of power did Jesus blow up?
02 Apr 13
Originally posted by twhiteheadYou looked for the worst society you could think of, then chose an analogy that didn't fit (enemies).
Your as bad as divegeester. You looked for the worst society you could think of, then chose an analogy that didn't fit (enemies). Its as good as an admission that I am right.
[b]maybe jesus should have been chinese or japanese, a country with much more rigid social structures, where a peasant was not allowed to leave his village.
He could have be ...[text shortened]... Jesus to be born into? No. Yet you think you have refuted my point by listing worse societies?[/b]
you choose one then. i hear the inuits are very nice. i am sure jesus would have been better off there. but i don't wish to influence you. you pick a society where it would have been a low probability that he would be killed for spreading his revolutionary message and his message would get across europe and influence the following centuries.
Your as bad as divegeester.
i am sure this comparisson was indeed thought of. i refuse to comment until you give me details. perhaps being as bad as divegester is a good thing.
Its as good as an admission that I am right.
yes, i remember arguments like these from the fights i had on the playground when i was 8. let's pretend you didn't say that.
Did I say there was no worse society for Jesus to be born into? No.
no you didn't. and you also missed my point.
you said he could have been born in a better society. if you claim such a society existed and jesus being born in it could have not gotten him killed while still spreading christianity, please let us know what that society is.
if you are claiming simply that he should have been born in a hypothetical nicer society, i counter with all society should have been nicer and jesus wouldn't have had to be born.
02 Apr 13
Originally posted by ZahlanziHere is a big problem: This is supposed to be a message for all mankind. But it was told in a tiny tribe and still 2000 years later some folks on Earth have never heard of and never did and never will hear of this Jesus dude. The whole thing reeks of self fulfilling prophecy, the 'coming' of JC supposedly in a prophecy thousands of years before.
like what society?
maybe the celts, who were a warrior society and beheaded their enemies to steal their souls?
maybe jesus should have been chinese or japanese, a country with much more rigid social structures, where a peasant was not allowed to leave his village.
maybe he should have been a hippie, 2000 years later, if hippies would have been f ...[text shortened]... ower of khali for example.
i disagree with your disagreement. it seems very poorly thought.
It could just as well have been a dude coming along and thinking hey, I could be that one. Yes, I think I am. No, I KNOW I am......
And now 2000 years later, only about 15% of humanity has been duped into this fairy tale. Not a good result for a supposed omniscient god.
02 Apr 13
Originally posted by ZahlanziZambia.
you pick a society
... and his message would get across europe and influence the following centuries.
Clever, clever, throw in a strawman why don't you.
no you didn't. and you also missed my point. you said he could have been born in a better society. if you claim such a society existed and jesus being born in it could have not gotten him killed while still spreading christianity, please let us know what that society is.
That was your point? You had a funny way of making it. Seriously, how do you get from your Celts comment to that?
if you are claiming simply that he should have been born in a hypothetical nicer society, i counter with all society should have been nicer and jesus wouldn't have had to be born.
I am claiming simply that your original claim is blatantly false.