Creationists now think it's ok to attack brain...

Originally posted by jaywill
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Correct -if you are comparing Christians with non-Christians that is.
But that is not what I am talking about -where did I mention “Christians verses non-Christians“ or “Christians verses atheists“ or “theists verses atheists“?

-how about comparing those that are anti-science with those that are not (regard he existence of God ?

But, don't let me discourage you from developing into an Agnostic.

…I don't think you could be a typical modern atheist if you really FELT that most Christians are not anti-science. ..…[/b](my emphases)

“FELT”? this is not derived by a “feeling” but rather through reason: -why would most atheists deny the obvious fact that most Christians don’t generally go around denying the scientific facts? -it comes from a simple observation that most don’t go around denying the scientific facts.

……But from everything else I have seen you write, it appears precisely that your grip is that the Christian faith is basically anti-science.
..…

“from everything else I have seen you write” in response to who?
-Those theists that are anti-science or those theists that are not?
Just one example of a theist that is clearly not anti-science is: FabianFnas : -can you point to any post of mine to him that says/implies that he is “anti-science”?

…Isn't it you the atheist which bases your atheism on there being NO empirical scientific evidence for the existence of God ? … (my emphases)

Yes. The “NO“ in the “NO empirical scientific evidence” is the operative word here -most Christians would not deny the evidence that DOES exist.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
Just one example of a theist that is clearly not anti-science is: FabianFnas : -can you point to any post of mine to him that says/implies that he is “anti-science”?

Eagerly waiting for a respond to this question! 🙂

Originally posted by jaywill
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A process doesn’t need intelligence to make a non-intelligent selection. The current of a river may selectively wash away the lighter-weight particles of sand but not be strong enough to wash away the heavier ones -thus you have a process that is selective but which uses non-intelligent selection -no intelligenc ...[text shortened]... f what nature seems to be doing.

Do have a pretty good grasp of Object Oriented Programming?

…But the simplicity of that example does not quite match the problem. If those washed away particles are accumulated to produce, say, Mt Rushmore, with four human like faces, the THAT is a little more the selection we see in your example.
..…[/b]

Mt Rushmore didn’t “evolve” by natural selection to have “four human like faces”.

…Or if the silt were washed away and assembled to produce the Saturn Moon rocket PLUS actually go back and forth to the moon, that would be more representative of what nature seems to be doing. .….

“Saturn Moon rocket PLUS actually go back and forth to the moon” didn’t “evolve” to be/happen by natural selection.

Evolution by natural selection occurs in a series of small creditable evolutionary changes that do not involve any absurd coincidences at each one of these small changes and natural selection isn‘t even “random“. So non of those small changes are analogous to, say, a vast pile of sand suddenly randomly forming into a distinctively clear human face shape etc.

When a current of a river selectively washes away the lighter-weight particles of sand and not the heavier ones -this is not only an example of a process that is selective which uses non-intelligent selection but also it is an example of such a non-intelligent selecting process that is not “random” (just like natural selection) because it is inevitable that the current of a river would tend to selectively wash away only the lighter-weight particles -so my analogy is still correct here.

……Do have a pretty good grasp of Object Oriented Programming? ..…

Yes. I officially am an expert on it! I have done several university courses on it and I am a computer programmer. I am currently inventing and making software to sell over the net and I am programming in java which is an Object Oriented Programming language which I studied at university.

What has this got with what we are talking about here?

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
…But the simplicity of that example does not quite match the problem. If those washed away particles are accumulated to produce, say, Mt Rushmore, with four human like faces, the THAT is a little more the selection we see in your example.
..…

Mt Rushmore didn’t “evolve” by natural selection to have “four human like faces”.

…Or if the s ...[text shortened]... anguage which I studied at university.

What has this got with what we are talking about here?

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Mt Rushmore didn’t “evolve” by natural selection to have “four human like faces”.
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We've been told by the history books that people sculpted Mt. Rushmore.

Had we NOT been told that we would have assumed that.

We've also been told by Evos that natural selection produced the variety of living organisms on the earth.

Some of us say "That is not history that you absolutely know took place, as in the case of the sculpting of MT. Rushmore. You do not know that with the same historical accuracy that the historian knows the source of the faces on Mt. Rushmore."

And not knowing that, some of us question that your process of natural selection caused the diversity of the biological world we see around us.

Adding millions and millions of more years doesn't help our questioning of your process. It may have taken part in some way. But some of us doubt that you have a mechanism to account for it all.


Silt washing down stream is too simplistic a comparison for a process of selection which gradually turned a bacteria into a human being.


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Evolution by natural selection occurs in a series of small creditable evolutionary changes that do not involve any absurd coincidences at each one of these small changes and natural selection isn‘t even “random“.
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The problem is what you claim small incremental steps, over long time, and measuring in the trillions, produced eventually.

You cannot hide from the proposterous conclusion of Evolutionists by
insisting that the only thing going on was small incremental steps.

The final result of all these small incremental steps displays to many of us the trademarks of forthought, look ahead, a plan, a program.

Concerning OOP, I see some parellels with it and the way the creation works. Since you know it probably better than I do, I don't mind bringing my questions and ideas to you.

I programmed in structured logic. But I got some exposure to OOP with some version of SAS and Java.

Maybe I will bring my thoughts on it to you. I see the result of life's development somewhat like the design of Methods in OOP.

Originally posted by jaywill
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Mt Rushmore didn’t “evolve” by natural selection to have “four human like faces”.
=====================================

We've been told by the history books that people sculpted Mt. Rushmore.

Had we NOT been told that we would have assumed that.

We've also been told by Evos that natural selection pro ...[text shortened]... o you. I see the result of life's development somewhat like the design of Methods in OOP.[/b]

…You cannot hide from the preposterous conclusion of Evolutionists by
insisting that the only thing going on was small incremental steps.

The final result of all these small incremental steps displays to many of us the trademarks of forethought, look ahead, a plan, a program.
..…

How so?

Why wouldn’t obvious and stupid flaws in the design be “trademarks” for a non-intelligent design process?

And why would an all-powerful all-knowing intelligence even bother to design things like dinosaurs, trilobites, etc only to allow them to almost inevitably go extinct as soon as there is a naturally occurring global disaster like a giant meteor hitting the Earth etc?