Let us hear what all of this is about??? Try and stick to the question if you can. Take your time......
Rev 14: 1-5 1. "Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who have his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. 2 I heard a sound coming out of heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was like singers who accompany themselves by playing on their harps. 3 And they are singing what seems to be a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders, and no one was able to master that song except the 144,000, who have been bought from the earth. 4 These are the ones who did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins. These are the ones who keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as first fruits to God and to the Lamb, 5 and no deceit was found in their mouths; they are without blemish."
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29599
@galveston75
As an aside, do you now accept you were wrong when you stated, "We have never worshiped Jesus or Michael. Jesus himself forbids it...." bearing in mind, Charles Russell, founder of Jehovah's Witnesses, taught that it was proper to worship Jesus and pray to him?
"It seems clear that His Divinity was retained in humanity because He repeatedly spoke of Himself as having come down from heaven, and because He, though passing through trial and sorrow as a man, was yet possessed of the authority and exercised the prerogatives of a God. He was the object of unreproved worship even when a babe, by the wise men who came to see the new-born King. Matt. 2:2-11. Even the angels delighted to do Him honor. "When He bringeth the first-begotten into the world, He saith, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." Heb. 1:6. He never reproved any one for acts of worship offered to Himself, but when Cornelius offered such service to Peter--the leading apostle-- "he took him up, saying, stand up; I myself also am a man." .... Had Christ not been more than a man the same reason would have prevented from receiving worship...."
Zion's Watch Tower 1880 Oct pp.2-3
- Joined
- 14 Jan 19
- Moves
- 4277
@galveston75 saidThis will go to this.
Let us hear what all of this is about??? Try and stick to the question if you can. Take your time......
Rev 14: 1-5 1. "Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who have his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. 2 I heard a sound coming out of heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud t ...[text shortened]... ruits to God and to the Lamb, 5 and no deceit was found in their mouths; they are without blemish."
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/travel/national-parks/article/zion-national-park
- Joined
- 14 Jan 19
- Moves
- 4277
@ghost-of-a-duke saidWill you accept that he will not admit he was wrong?
@galveston75
As an aside, do you now accept you were wrong when you stated, "We have never worshiped Jesus or Michael. Jesus himself forbids it...." bearing in mind, Charles Russell, founder of Jehovah's Witnesses, taught that it was proper to worship Jesus and pray to him?
"It seems clear that His Divinity was retained in humanity because He repeatedly spoke of ...[text shortened]... e same reason would have prevented from receiving worship...."
Zion's Watch Tower 1880 Oct pp.2-3
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29599
@pettytalk saidNo sir. If he is as honest as he claims then he should address the fair question put to him.
Will you accept that he will not admit he was wrong?
Being an immortal chap, I will ask the question until around 2257.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
OK my fine friend. I will answer this never nagging issue of worshiping Jesus. I'm only answering you because I respect you and your comments.......
I was hoping that all the highly educated ones here at this forum would take the time out to just go to a non religious, neutral book to see what the word WORSHIP means. So far it doesn't seem to happen
Perhaps most here say that we are to worship Jesus just as we are to worship say...God Almighty who's name is Jehovah? No we are not ever too do that and that was never said by any JW that we are to worship Jesus as if he were God Almighty.
So maybe just go to say a dictionary and think about this??????
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/worship
Anyway perhaps all here should show a little wisdom and understanding and see if it helps????
By they way Jesus told humans on earth while he was here to never worship him as you would his Father. Are scriptures needed to prove this? Let me know if y'all can't find them....
@galveston75 saidAnyone need help yet? Try this:
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
OK my fine friend. I will answer this never nagging issue of worshiping Jesus. I'm only answering you because I respect you and your comments.......
I was hoping that all the highly educated ones here at this forum would take the time out to just go to a non religious, neutral book to see what the word WORSHIP means. So far it doesn't seem to happe ...[text shortened]... you would his Father. Are scriptures needed to prove this? Let me know if y'all can't find them....
Did Paul not say at Hebrews 1:6: “Let all the angels of God worship him [Jesus]”?’ (King James Version) How can we understand this scripture in the light of what the Bible says about idolatry?
Worship in the Bible
First, one has to understand what Paul meant here by worship. He used the Greek word pro·sky·neʹo. Unger’s Bible Dictionary says that this word literally means to ‘kiss the hand of someone in token of reverence or to do homage.’ An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, by W. E. Vine, says that this word “denotes an act of reverence, whether paid to man . . . or to God.” In Bible times pro·sky·neʹo often included literally bowing down before someone of high stature.
Help any?
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29599
@galveston75 saidPlease explain then what Charles Russell meant when he said:
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
OK my fine friend. I will answer this never nagging issue of worshiping Jesus. I'm only answering you because I respect you and your comments.......
I was hoping that all the highly educated ones here at this forum would take the time out to just go to a non religious, neutral book to see what the word WORSHIP means. So far it doesn't seem to happe ...[text shortened]... you would his Father. Are scriptures needed to prove this? Let me know if y'all can't find them....
"He was the object of unreproved worship even when a babe, by the wise men who came to see the new-born King. Matt. 2:2-11. Even the angels delighted to do Him honor. "When He bringeth the first-begotten into the world, He saith, "And let all the angels of God worship Him."
Zion's Watch Tower 1880 Oct pp.2-3
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29599
@galveston75 said“Six days later, Jesus took with him Peter and James and his brother John and led
Anyone need help yet? Try this:
Did Paul not say at Hebrews 1:6: “Let all the angels of God worship him [Jesus]”?’ (King James Version) How can we understand this scripture in the light of what the Bible says about idolatry?
Worship in the Bible
First, one has to understand what Paul meant here by worship. He used the Greek word pro·sky·neʹo. Unger’s Bible Dic ...[text shortened]... imes pro·sky·neʹo often included literally bowing down before someone of high stature.
Help any?
them up a high mountain, by themselves. And he was transfigured before them,
and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became dazzling white. Suddenly
there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him. Then Peter said to
Jesus, ‘Lord, it is good for us to be here; if you wish, I will make three dwellings
here, one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.’ While he was still speaking,
suddenly a bright cloud overshadowed them, and from the cloud a voice said, ‘This
is my Son, the Beloved; with him I am well pleased; listen to him!’ When the
disciples heard this, they fell to the ground and were overcome by fear. But Jesus
came and touched them, saying, ‘Get up and do not be afraid.’ And when they
looked up, they saw no one except Jesus himself alone. As they were coming down
the mountain, Jesus ordered them, ‘Tell no one about the vision until after the Son
of Man has been raised from the dead.’” (Mt. 17:1-9)
From this one incident, my friend, we find four reasons for worshiping Jesus Christ:
1. A Christian worships Jesus because of his divinity
2. A Christian worships Jesus because of his supremacy
3. A Christian worships Jesus because of his humanity
4. A Christian worships Jesus because of his humility
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29599
@galveston75 saidNo.
I would think the post 2 up from here answered that statement? No?
Charles Russell was not talking about kissing the hand of Jesus or any of your other attempts to water down the meaning of worship. - The truth is, you were wrong when you said your church has never worshipped Jesus. The founder of your church did just that, no matter how far you try to distance yourself from him.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidWell I've answered your question more then once. I can't make you understand it. Sorry....
No.
Charles Russell was not talking about kissing the hand of Jesus or any of your other attempts to water down the meaning of worship. - The truth is, you were wrong when you said your church has never worshipped Jesus. The founder of your church did just that, no matter how far you try to distance yourself from him.
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29599
@galveston75 saidWell, to be fair, you didn't so much answer the question but tip toe around it.
Well I've answered your question more then once. I can't make you understand it. Sorry....
I'm not entirely sure you have understood yourself was Russell was saying. - He couldn't have been any clearer - Jesus should be worshipped (and not in the way you have tried to re-define the word worship). That being the case, you either need to retract your statement that your Church has never advocated worshipping Jesus or say simply that your church has changed direction and no longer believe what the founder of your church believed.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidHe’s not going to answer you because he’s wrong, knows he’s wrong and is too proud to admit it.
@galveston75
As an aside, do you now accept you were wrong when you stated, "We have never worshiped Jesus or Michael. Jesus himself forbids it...." bearing in mind, Charles Russell, founder of Jehovah's Witnesses, taught that it was proper to worship Jesus and pray to him?
"It seems clear that His Divinity was retained in humanity because He repeatedly spoke of ...[text shortened]... e same reason would have prevented from receiving worship...."
Zion's Watch Tower 1880 Oct pp.2-3
@divegeester saidLol. You are wrong about it all. Wish you weren't, but you don't have a chance. 🙁
He’s not going to answer you because he’s wrong, knows he’s wrong and is too proud to admit it.