Debatable Matters

Romans 14

As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master[a] that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written,

“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess to God.”
12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.

Do Not Cause Another to Stumble
13 Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. 14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. 15 For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died. 16 So do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. 19 So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.

20 Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats. 21 It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble.[c] 22 The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.[d]

The matters that Paul brings up, are they sins or are they what some consider sin but actually are not?

Modern topic that fits this situation would be alcohol. Drinking alcohol is not sinful in itself, but some Christians believe that it is. They should not cause division with the issue, but those who know the truth should refrain from drinking alcohol to prevent problems.

Originally posted by Eladar
Romans 14

[b]As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass j ...[text shortened]... he issue, but those who know the truth should refrain from drinking alcohol to prevent problems.

I think people need to be careful how they interpret what Paul says. There are times when Paul speaks specific things to specific people and his advice is to counter specific customs and behaviour patters of the Gentiles he is addressing. Sometimes they are not meant for everyone for all time. There are even times when he gives an opinion on a matter and his determination is not from Christ.

Originally posted by Eladar
Romans 14

[b]As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass j ...[text shortened]... he issue, but those who know the truth should refrain from drinking alcohol to prevent problems.

You're upset about the gluttony posts aren't you.

Originally posted by divegeester
You're upset about the gluttony posts aren't you.

He must be a fat guy.

Originally posted by divegeester
You're upset about the gluttony posts aren't you.

He thinks that opposition to what he says somehow justifies his "faith", so he's immune to rationality. He can't see that people here just take exception to blatant ignorance.

Originally posted by Suzianne
He thinks that opposition to what he says somehow justifies his faith, so he's immune to rationality. He can't see that people here just take exception to blatant ignorance.

Perhaps you can show me in the Bible the definition of gluttony as homosexuality is described. Perhaps where in the NT gluttony is described as a sin.

Thanks.

Originally posted by Eladar
Perhaps you can show me in the Bible the definition of gluttony as homosexuality is described. Perhaps where in the NT gluttony is described as a sin.

Thanks.

Here are two:

One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. (Titus 1:12 KJV)

When thou sittest to eat with a ruler, consider diligently what is before thee: And put a knife to thy throat, if thou be a man given to appetite.
(Proverbs 23:1-2 KJV)

I could find more.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Here are two:

One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. (Titus 1:12 KJV)

When thou sittest to eat with a ruler, consider diligently what is before thee: And put a knife to thy throat, if thou be a man given to appetite.
(Proverbs 23:1-2 KJV)

I could find more.

Lazy glutton? What if the fat person isn't lazy?

What if a skinny person eats more than the fat person?

Not to be a heretic, but this may be intersting to some

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-gut-bacteria-help-make-us-fat-and-thin/

Originally posted by Eladar
Lazy glutton? What if the fat person isn't lazy?

What if a skinny person eats more than the fat person?

Whats with the fine details and the questions?
God is the judge.
Gluttony is not something God likes.
Why is that something you want to argue about

Originally posted by Rajk999
Whats with the fine details and the questions?
God is the judge.
Gluttony is not something God likes.
Why is that something you want to argue about

The question is, what is gluttony?

Of course you are just playing games.

In Roman times some people were such gluttons they'd throw up so they could eat more.

But hey, continue being yourself.

Originally posted by Eladar
Romans 14

[b]As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass j ...[text shortened]... he issue, but those who know the truth should refrain from drinking alcohol to prevent problems.

So you are suggesting that people should NOT be drinking alcohol? Is that your point?

Originally posted by Eladar
Perhaps you can show me in the Bible the definition of gluttony as homosexuality is described. Perhaps where in the NT gluttony is described as a sin.

Thanks.

It's in the OT as being equated to drunkardness as I pointed out to you with scripture; you are now just hiding behind this bluster that it is not specifically called out in the NT.

You are very keen to attack and accuse other here but I suspect you yourself are overindulging in food and you should look to how God equates this. Gluttony, drunkardness, homosexuality...

Originally posted by Eladar
The question is, what is gluttony?

What is homosexuality?

Originally posted by chaney3
So you are suggesting that people should NOT be drinking alcohol? Is that your point?

Some peopke should not.

If you don't have a drinking problem, but the person you are with does, then you shouldn't.

If the person you are with and that person believes it is sinful, then Paul is saying you shouldn't. It isn't my point. It is Paul's point.