29 May 09
Originally posted by scherzoyou forgot moonies,hare krishna, and zoarostrianism 🙂
Or fill in the blanks:
Jews
Buddhists
Hindus
Taoists
Shintos
Ba'hai
Scientologists
They're all planning to take over the world and convert everyone to their religion or kill them!! Something must be done to stop these Christians/Jews/Buddhists/Hindus/Taoists/Shintos/etc.
30 May 09
Yes I get the point but the counterpoint is, you are putting Islam on the same playing field as all the others.
Islam has had been at war/jihad (though jihad can be enacted through written protest and other methods) against the rest of the world since its inception in the 6th century.
I'm not claiming that Christianity hasn't struggled and/or been at war with the rest of the world for 2000 years, but getting back to the counterpoint... Islam is in a category all in itself.
Christianity has certainly had its share of war and battle but there is a major difference between Islam and Christianity. The Crusades, witch hunts and so forth were examples of so-called Christians going completely against Jesus' teachings. Can we say the same for Islam, especially when the founder of the religion was a conqueror?
30 May 09
Originally posted by sumydidHere in 2009, which Muslim countries (and their Muslim citizens) are you talking about, and which Muslim countries are you not talking about?
Islam has had been at war/jihad (though jihad can be enacted through written protest and other methods) against the rest of the world since its inception in the 6th century.
30 May 09
1 edit
I'm not talking about countries, I'm talking about the entire Muslim community, with the exception of the scant few pacifist moderates who don't subscribe to the teachings. I guess you could say I'm talking about Orthodox Islam but I don't want that to be mistaken for some small minority.
30 May 09
Originally posted by sumydidYou think that in 2009 "the entire (world) Muslim community" is at war with the rest of the world?
I'm not talking about countries, I'm talking about the entire Muslim community, with the exception of the scant few pacifist moderates who don't subscribe to the teachings.
30 May 09
Originally posted by sumydidYes I get the point but the counterpoint is, you are putting Islam on the same playing field as all the others.
Yes I get the point but the counterpoint is, you are putting Islam on the same playing field as all the others.
Islam has had been at war/jihad (though jihad can be enacted through written protest and other methods) against the rest of the world since its inception in the 6th century.
I'm not claiming that Christianity hasn't struggled and/or been at w ...[text shortened]... Can we say the same for Islam, especially when the founder of the religion was a conqueror?
That's not counterpoint. That's discrimination.
Islam has had been at war/jihad (though jihad can be enacted through written protest and other methods) against the rest of the world since its inception in the 6th century.
Wrong. The (vast) majority of Muslims believe that the time for jihad is either in the future or will never come. Even the ones that advocate their so-called jihad today (like our good friends - sarcastic - in al-Qaeda) say that it's a new development, brought about by the Westernization of the Middle East. Now, do I think that the Middle East should not be Westernized? Yes. Do I think that driving passenger planes into public and governmental buildings in huge American cities is the way to go? Of course not.
I'm not claiming that Christianity hasn't struggled and/or been at war with the rest of the world for 2000 years, but getting back to the counterpoint... Islam is in a category all in itself.
No, it isn't. Keep in mind, by the way, that Islam is about 650 years younger than Christianity. 650 years ago, Christians were still burning each other for saying that the Earth revolved around the Sun. At the same time, Islam was in a golden age. Is the golden age still going on? No. But we're a lot better now than you were when your religion was the age that ours is right now.
Christianity has certainly had its share of war and battle but there is a major difference between Islam and Christianity. The Crusades, witch hunts and so forth were examples of so-called Christians going completely against Jesus' teachings. Can we say the same for Islam, especially when the founder of the religion was a conqueror?
Many problems here.
First of all, you can't compare the Crusades to what Muslims did. Although a lot of attacks precipitated by "Holy War" for so-called Muslims have happened recently, nothing compares to the absolute evil of the Crusades. As for witch hunts --- see above for my comment about the golden age. And Mohammed was not a conqueror until he received the vision. Before then he was a merchant. He was forced to become a conqueror when the pagan rulers of the Arabian Peninsula tried to force him into exile with his followers. Also, one more thing. Keep in mind that many Shi'a do not doubt the divinity of Jesus. We merely consider Mohammed to be a Jesus "upgrade," if you will. You speak of these religions as if they have different values, different prophets, different deities, etc. They're much more similar than you think.
30 May 09
1 edit
Originally posted by scherzoNo. But we're a lot better now than you were when your religion was the age that ours is right now.
[b]Yes I get the point but the counterpoint is, you are putting Islam on the same playing field as all the others.
That's not counterpoint. That's discrimination.
Islam has had been at war/jihad (though jihad can be enacted through written protest and other methods) against the rest of the world since its inception in the 6th century.
Wro erent prophets, different deities, etc. They're much more similar than you think.[/b]
Better?
How do you measure?
30 May 09
Originally posted by SushillThe number of people killed for saying that the Earth revolves around the Sun. Among other, similar, things. The number of witch-hunts. The status of women. The status of homosexuals. Etc.
[b]No. But we're a lot better now than you were when your religion was the age that ours is right now.
Better?
How do you measure?[/b]
31 May 09
Originally posted by sumydidSo you have taken it upon yourself to decide who is and who isn't a 'real' Muslim? Are you yourself a Muslim? If not, what are your Islamic theology credentials?
'm talking about the entire Muslim community, with the exception of the scant few pacifist moderates who don't subscribe to the teachings. I guess you could say I'm talking about Orthodox Islam but I don't want that to be mistaken for some small minority.
And how does the Sumydid Method work exactly? Those Muslims who are not as wicked and misguided as you need them to be, for you to make whatever broadbrush dehumanizing point it is you seek to make, are deemed 'not real Muslims' (and a "small minority" to boot)?
Have I understood you right?
31 May 09
Originally posted by FMFYes, but, "at war" can be defined on many levels, just like "jihad" can. Christians call their "war" against the rest of the world "spiritual warfare."
You think that in 2009 "the entire (world) Muslim community" is at war with the rest of the world?
I see the difference between both groups being that the Muslims take it to a much more violent level as you examine the more and more radical members of the religion.
Today, an extremist Christian is someone who publicly condemns behaviors... the so-called "holy roller." In comparison, the extremist Muslim of today preaches violence against non-Muslims. As you move toward even more radical behavior, you get--on the Christian side--the very, very rarely seen abortion clinic bomber... of which there have been what.. maybe a half dozen or so? But the extreme radical Muslims, who number in the thousands or more, bomb busy street intersections, cafés, and places jam-packed with completely innocent citizens, seeking as much death and carnage as possible... or worse, the extreme radical Muslims kill thousands by slamming packed jetliners into skyscrapers and publicly behead their perceived enemies, using their religious beliefs--the teachings of Mohammed--as their rallying cry.
When's the last time you saw an abortion clinic bomber quote Jesus' teachings to justify their acts?
31 May 09
Originally posted by scherzoThis is a serious question. Im not being a wise guy.I was under the impression that the woman were not treated well and the muslims were dead set against homosexuality. Am I incorrect? If so,please explain
The number of people killed for saying that the Earth revolves around the Sun. Among other, similar, things. The number of witch-hunts. The status of women. The status of homosexuals. Etc.