Denominational/organised religion

Let's not get into the "we are not vampires" doctrine shall we; nor (god forbid) revisit the "do i need to be a JW" as one of the must haves for salvation". Let focus on the bucks.

Robbie as you have decided to unzip your fly (metaphorically speaking thank god) why don't you enlighten us on the fiscal machinations of the JWs? For instance:

If I came to your kingdom hall as the slavering but repentant capitalist that I am, and I did not contribute financially, how would you then encourage me?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I think, as charities go (we are registered in the UK as a charity) that each
congregation must publicly declare its financial state of affairs. Compared to the
Church of Scotland and the Catholic church we are paupers. Each year,
usually January or February there is a finacial statement printed in the Magazines
detailing how much was spent ...[text shortened]... ut even
here the funds were obtained by the voluntary contributions of congregation
members.

I was just wondering if you had a ballpark figure for the publication of all the magazines.

I'll have a root around.

Originally posted by divegeester
Let's not get into "we are not vampires" doctrine shall we; nor (god forbid) revisit the "do i need to be a JW" as one of the [b]must haves for salvation". Let focus on the bucks.

Robbie as you have decided to unzip your fly (metaphorically speaking thank god) why don't you enlighten us on the fiscal machinations of the JWs? For instance:

If ...[text shortened]... italist that I am, and I did not contribute financially, how would you then encourage me?[/b]

why would you be asked to contribute financially? we are already self sustaining, what
would we charge you for? a warm handshake? a friendly smile? hopefully if the
speaker was any good you would be encouraged by the Biblical discourse which might
be on any number of topics, from family to the wonders of the cosmos. We draw
great encouragement merely from seeing members of the public attend. You should
go to the annual memorial celebration of Christs death, its roughly about 50 percent
members of the public , although its not the usual format you will see how different it
is from church. Its this Sunday after sundown, get yourself along to Golders Green
K/Hall or your nearest one and feel the love! NO COLLECTION! ALL WELCOME! EVEN
CAPITALISTS!

Originally posted by Proper Knob
I was just wondering if you had a ballpark figure for the publication of all the magazines.

I'll have a root around.

yes it makes interesting reading, as you see our income comes from voluntary
donations, almost entirely although we do get a refund from the tax man on this
because of charity laws and interest received from the Royal Bank, I would say that
this is not typical of a congregation dear Noobster, but of several for it details a
Assembly Hall Complex, which is used by many congregations. You will also note the
cost of generating the funds is zero. I dont believe I have ever been to the
Manchester one, but i have in the East Pennines. Try to do a comparison with say the
Catholic church, you will find their activities go into businesses and the like, please
also note and i provide the extract,

TRANSACTIONS WITH TRUSTEES AND CONNECTED PERSONS
No trustees received remuneration for services during the year.

TRUSTEES EXPENSES
During the year no trustees received expenses.

EMPLOYEE EMOLUMENTS
The charity does not have any employees

and compare that with ANY other church or charity!

Originally posted by divegeester
All of them; all the Christian denominations (especially the big ones) and all the spin off cults such as the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses, are all out to manipulate people and make pots of cash. It's depressing and loathsome. The passing round of the the begging bowl during times of worship is the most repellent sight in churches.

You get in trouble when you say 'all of them'. I've been to churches that don't ask for money. I've been to churches that do, respectfully. I've been to churches that ask for money with guilt. I've been to churches that ask for money with greed-'Give to God, and he'll give back'.

I suspect that most churches are in it for spiritual, not financial, gain. The preacher has to eat, the building has to be maintained. There is no shame in requesting a donation. However there are churches that are in it for financial gain. The bible based television networks I view with great suspicion, and many 'mega churches' behave similiarly. I figure if the church has a better AV system than the local movie theater, something is amiss.

Originally posted by Darax The Good
You get in trouble when you say 'all of them'. I've been to churches that don't ask for money. I've been to churches that do, respectfully. I've been to churches that ask for money with guilt. I've been to churches that ask for money with greed-'Give to God, and he'll give back'.

I suspect that most churches are in it for spiritual, not finan the church has a better AV system than the local movie theater, something is amiss.

Actually i think that Paul set an excellent example for one that would profess to be
an overseer in the church, in that he was self sufficient and although he
acknowledged that he might ask for something from the congregation, he toiled
with his own hands to make sure that he was not a burden to anyone.

(2 Thessalonians 3:7-9) . . .For you yourselves know the way you ought to imitate
us, because we did not behave disorderly among you  nor did we eat food from
anyone free. To the contrary, by labour and toil night and day we were working so
as not to impose an expensive burden upon any one of you.  Not that we do not
have authority, but in order that we might offer ourselves as an example to you to
imitate us.

(2 Corinthians 11:9) . . .and yet when I was present with you and I fell in need, I did
not become a burden to a single one, for the brothers that came from Macedonia
abundantly supplied my deficiency. Yes, in every way I kept myself unburdensome
to you and will keep myself so. . .

(1 Thessalonians 2:9) Certainly you bear in mind, brothers, our labour and toil. It
was with working night and day, so as not to put an expensive burden upon any
one of you, that we preached the good news of God to you.

haven't met someone who I knew was a JW in 20 years. I was really young then and thought it was sad that santa didn't visit them. In retrospect I think it's sad that we engage in a collective lie with our children on such special days.

Originally posted by Darax The Good
haven't met someone who I knew was a JW in 20 years. I was really young then and thought it was sad that santa didn't visit them. In retrospect I think it's sad that we engage in a collective lie with our children on such special days.

well, its difficult for parents, they are under so much pressure. Its also difficult time for
us also, but dont feel sad, JW Kids get lots of stuff. I once spoke about it to a women
and she felt that it wasn't really a lie, although how she tried to justify her argument,
i cannot remember.

Originally posted by divegeester
All of them; all the Christian denominations (especially the big ones) and all the spin off cults such as the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses, are all out to manipulate people and make pots of cash. It's depressing and loathsome. The passing round of the the begging bowl during times of worship is the most repellent sight in churches.

You have a point. But it's even worse than you realise.

On the other hand, it is better to give than to receive.

If it weren't for all those churches taking up collections, billions of dollars a year wouldn't find its way to the poor and hungry around the world.

Don't confuse your apples and oranges divester.

Originally posted by divegeester
All of them; all the Christian denominations (especially the big ones) and all the spin off cults such as the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses, are all out to manipulate people and make pots of cash. It's depressing and loathsome. The passing round of the the begging bowl during times of worship is the most repellent sight in churches.

You must be considerably depressed and hateful about how the government takes cash from you. At least the Church asks for you to give and does not take it from you.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Actually i think that Paul set an excellent example for one that would profess to be
an overseer in the church, in that he was self sufficient and although he
acknowledged that he might ask for something from the congregation, he toiled
with his own hands to make sure that he was not a burden to anyone.

(2 Thessalonians 3:7-9) . . .For you y ...[text shortened]... to put an expensive burden upon any
one of you, that we preached the good news of God to you.

Quite right

Originally posted by Darax The Good
You get in trouble when you say 'all of them'. I've been to churches that don't ask for money.

So have I, but I'm talking about the denominations and their fiscal policies. All the big one reach out for cash from the laity, it's disgraceful. It should never happen ever especially in open service where there may be non-members or unbelievers who have walked in. What's wrong with trusting in God's provision instead of having your hand out all the time. But yes there some genuine little churches out there if you can find them.

Originally posted by josephw
You have a point. But it's even worse than you realise.

On the other hand, it is better to give than to receive.

If it weren't for all those churches taking up collections, billions of dollars a year wouldn't find its way to the poor and hungry around the world.

Don't confuse your apples and oranges divester.

The purpose of the church is to give to the poor, not the other way round. Pastors/leaders with their hand out to their congregation each week should go and get a job like the rest of us. I'm talking about the everyday churches, not the TV charlatans like Benny Hinn etc.

Originally posted by divegeester
All of them; all the Christian denominations (especially the big ones) and all the spin off cults such as the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses, are all out to manipulate people and make pots of cash. It's depressing and loathsome. The passing round of the the begging bowl during times of worship is the most repellent sight in churches.

Which do you suppose is better at helping the poor? Is it the church or the state?

Originally posted by whodey
Which do you suppose is better at helping the poor? Is it the church or the state?

rich capitalist bourgeoisie factory owners. We had a great tradition of benefactors and
philanthropists in the U.K, there is still an entire village in lanark, Scotland, where the
workers could expect.

1.Education
2.Social Inclusion and Early Intervention
3.Parenting Classes
4.Working Conditions
5.Employment Training
6.Child Care / Workplace Nurseries
7.Equality for Women
8.Health, Preventive Medicine & Health Education
9.Care for the elderly and infirm

and that Whodey was 200 years ago. Shame on America!

http://www.newlanark.org/robertowen.shtml