Originally posted by 667joe
It is truly despicable that Jesus can forgive your sins. The only person who can t forgive you is the person against whom you have sinned. Christianity gives you an easy way out. Christianity is scape goating, but Jesus is the goat. Sacrificing a goat is bad enough, but the blood sacrifice of a human being so you can be relieved of sins against 3rd party is truly barbaric.
It is truly despicable that Jesus can forgive your sins.
No it isn't. Sin separates me from fellowship with God. And in that separation God cannot carry out His eternal plan to dispense His life and nature into me that I may become a son of God.
"Even as He chose us before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love, predestinating us unto SONSHIP through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will ..." (Eph. 1:4,5)
Forgiveness allows me to return to the eternal purpose of God which He ordained before the creation of the universe, before "the foundation of the world"
The removal of this barrier through forgiveness
allows me to be brought back to the eternal purpose of God which can only be carried out as we are able to have communion together.
So there is nothing at all despicable about being brought back to live in the presence of my heavenly Father.
"No, Jehovah's hand is not so short that it cannot save; Nor is His ear so heavy that it cannot hear. But your iniquities have become a SEPARATION between you and your God, And your sins have hidden [His] face from you so that He does not hear." (Isaiah 59:1,2)
The removal of the separation between us and God is not despicable. Your wanting it to remain is morally sick and descpicable.
The only person who can t forgive you is the person against whom you have sinned.
If I kill a child when does that child have opportunity to forgive me ?
If that person has no possibility to forgive me then you are saying there are sins which will never be forgiven.
But God says "Vengence is Mine. I will repay"
for though a child is ignorant, God is never ignorant. And all our transgressions are really against Him.
So forgiveness from God is the only way ALL sins may really be forgiven. The offended human party cannot always forgive sins. The eternal God CAN always forgive sins. And He alone is in the position to do so as well as inact vengence against the sinner, should that be required.
Face it joe999. You have committed some sins against people who are not aware of the offense. And the same has happened to YOU also. So an Ultimate Judge
and an Ultimate Forgiver
in God in the Bible.
Christianity gives you an easy way out.
What is it that you think the Christian has an "easy way out of" ?
Be specific about what it is that is being easily avoided ?
Christianity is scape goating, but Jesus is the goat. Sacrificing a goat is bad enough, but the blood sacrifice of a human being so you can be relieved of sins against 3rd party is truly barbaric.
Going back to God's eternal purpose, it is that men and women be conformed to the image of His Son the He might be the Firstborn among many brothers.
If we are to be eternally with God, and He does not change, the we must be transformed to be compatible with Him.
So forgiveness is not an end in itself. The sinner forgiven must be sanctified and conformed to the image of the Firstborn Son of God. The process cannot be postponed forever. The process cannot be avoided. The process cannot be circumented. And simply because man is forgiven does not mean that the conforming is not necessary.
1.) The forgiven sinner does get to be forgiven of every and all sins he ever commited.
2.) The sinner DOES NOT get to remain forever the kind of person he was when he sinned.
So your caricature of a "easy way out" is completely ignorant. This is the typical kind of ignrance of one who will not read carefully the word of God.
Laziness to carefully examine the word of God, I find despicable in your post.
Your grandstanding and sensationalist ignorance, I find despicable.
Your failure to learn anything over the years in this forum could be deemed despicable.
And if the way of Christian salvation was so much an "easy way out" why are there so many exhortations of warning to Christians for whom eternal redemption has been settled in the positive ?
For example, just ONE example. Here Paul is speaking to the Christians in the churches in Galatia, for whom forgiveness of sins certainly has been secured.
"Do not be deceived: God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.
For he who sows unto his own flesh will reap corruption of the flesh, but he who sows unto the Spirit will of the Spirit reap eternal life." (Galatians 6:7,8)
The warning "God is not mocked"
here is to the forgiven. See the worst part of your ignorant concept is that you portray the heavenly Father as essentially stupid.
This ignorance of yours could be remedied by some careful and voluntary study of the Bible on your part. But you may prefer to remain in ignorance. Perhaps your apparent disapproval of forgiveness is really a cloaked rational to continue a sin loving life.
That would really be despicable - a critic of the Gospel of Christ really only interested in rationalizing his continued slavery to sinning.