Destructive ......

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Above I gave an example of a Manipulative Debating Technique:

What aspect of it constitutes manipulation?

Are you saying that asking somebody a question which entails a false premise constitutes manipulation?

Or are you saying that presenting somebody with a dilemma constitutes manipulation?

Until you actually start defining what it is you're whining about, this thread is a complete waste of space. You've been asked to give a definition of what exactly "bullying" is on an internet forum and you have refused to do so. You have been asked to give a definition of what you consider objectionable "manipulative debating techniques" are on an internet forum and you have refused to do so. Either specifically define what you are talking about or no one can possibly discuss the matter as reading your "mind" is not something I can do.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Describe the alleged manipulating techniques. What does it mean to manipulate somebody in a discussion of Spirituality? What end could one hope to achieve through manipulation?

DoctorS: "What end could one hope to achieve through manipulation?

What do you think ? You are an intelligent person. You must be able to think of some reasons to use manipulation.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
[b]DoctorS: "What end could one hope to achieve through manipulation?

What do you think ? You are an intelligent person. You must be able to think of some reasons to use manipulation.[/b]

Does this have to do with your theory of scoring points?

Originally posted by no1marauder
Until you actually start defining what it is you're whining about, this thread is a complete waste of space. You've been asked to give a definition of what exactly "bullying" is on an internet forum and you have refused to do so. You have been asked to give a definition of what you consider objectionable "manipulative debating techniques" are on a ...[text shortened]... ut or no one can possibly discuss the matter as reading your "mind" is not something I can do.

Watch carefully marauder, because here the manipulation, on your part, starts.

-First you adress the well-known "definition" questions.

I wonder how long you will be able to adress this issue without substantially adressing my criticism concerning your manipulative debating techniques . When will the explanation of what I mean be satisfying and clear to you ? We will soon find out.

Here goes:


Technique.

technique

a practical method or art applied to some particular task


Debate

debate
A noun
1 argument, argumentation, debate

a discussion in which reasons are advanced for and against some proposition or proposal; "the argument over foreign aid goes on and on"

2 debate, disputation, public_debate

the formal presentation of and opposition to a stated proposition (usually followed by a vote)
argue with one another; "We debated the question of abortion"; "John debated Mary"
2 argue, contend, debate, fence

have an argument about something
3 debate, deliberate

discuss the pros and cons of an issue
4 consider, debate, moot, turn_over, deliberate

think about carefully; weigh; "They considered the possibility of a strike"; "Turn the proposal over in your mind"


Manipulative

manipulative
A adjective
1 manipulative

skillful in influencing or controlling others to your own advantage; "the early manipulative techniques of a three-year-old"


http://wordnet.princeton.edu/

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Does this have to do with your theory of scoring points?

What do you think ?

Originally posted by ivanhoe
What do you think ?

I imagine it does. Why don't you just tell us.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
I imagine it does. Why don't you just tell us.

Don't you think it is very obvious, marauder ?


edit: ha ha ha .... I meant of course you Doctor.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Don't you think it is very obvious, marauder ?


edit: ha ha ha .... I meant of course you Doctor.

No, I think it a fantastical product of your paranoia, undiscernable to the rest of us. If you would, please humor us with the details. Get it off your chest.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
No, I think it a fantastical product of your paranoia, undiscernable to the rest of us. If you would, please humor us with the details. Get it off your chest.

Look Doctor, the manipulation on your part starts. You accuse me of being "paranoid".

What do you mean by that ? Could you please define "paranoid".

Do you mean that I see or notice things which aren't there ?

In the "Suicide on 9/11 - Damned?" thread I posted the following:

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Marauder: "No, Ivanhoe, you are committing a logical fallacy; people's intentions are not relevant to their argument."

It all depends. What is your argument in this thread ? ... and what is your accompanying reasoning ?


Marauder: "Application of the rule you are here creating would mean that every single thread in this and any other forum would i ...[text shortened]... "intellectual heart of these forums"

What are your answers to these simple questions ?


Marauder: "My answer to your simple minded questions is that they are off-topic as well as filled with incorrect premises and untruths. Start another thread about debating methods or some such rot and maybe I'll contribute."


Well, I did what you asked me to do and I opened a new thread, this thread.



What are these incorrect premises and untruths you are referring to ?

As you know I am interested in the truth, therefore I am most willing to hear from you what these "incorrect premises and untruths" are.

Originally posted by no1marauder
You've been asked to give a definition of what exactly "bullying" is on an internet forum and you have refused to do so. ........ .

verb
1 browbeat, bully, swagger

discourage or frighten with threats or a domineering manner; intimidate
2 strong-arm, bully, browbeat, bullyrag, ballyrag, boss_around, hector, push_around

be bossy towards; "Her big brother always bullied her when she was young"

Another instance of manipulative debating techniques, much more refined and much less obvious then the "Why don't you stop beating your wife" question is the technique used by the marauder and Nemesio in the "Suicide on 9/11 - Damned?" thread:

You are applying some sort of "game theory" in which you set all the rules and in which you determine the context and settings, by constructing these questions and their context. I reacted to the marauder's original question and I gave documented evidence of my position. I even disputed and gave the reasons why I disputed the ridiculous claim that the jumpers committed suicide. The way you and the marauder present things, in a very closed setting, is very vulnerable for manipulation on your and the marauder's part, as we can witness in this thread (the more than silly, hilarious, "Time Theory" from the marauder for instance and the inclination you and the marauder in particular have to ignore everything your opponent states and that does not fit in with your settings.).

The way you present the material or your stance, I often wonder if you have a stance at all or that you are merely playing the role of the 'Quizz-Master" in all these encounters you engage in, is unacceptable.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Watch carefully marauder, because here the manipulation, on your part, starts.

-First you adress the well-known "definition" questions.

I wonder how long you will be able to adress this issue without substantially adressing my criticism concerning your manipulative debating techniques . When will the explanation of what I mean be satisfying and clea ...[text shortened]... ; "the early manipulative techniques of a three-year-old"


http://wordnet.princeton.edu/

From your definitions, I deduce that you find it objectionable for someone to use skillful methods of convincing other people that their position is correct. Would it be less objectionable if my methods weren't skillful? Is poor argument technique required on internet forums?

Originally posted by ivanhoe
verb
1 browbeat, [b]bully, swagger

discourage or frighten with threats or a domineering manner; intimidate
2 strong-arm, bully, browbeat, bullyrag, ballyrag, boss_around, hector, push_around

be bossy towards; "Her big brother always bullied her when she was young"[/b]

What "threats" or "intimidation" do you feel are possible and/or effective on an internet forum? Would someone supporting others being thrown off a forum for the content of their posts be "bullying" someone in your view? Would someone lobbying others to alert the moderators on someone's posts be "bullying" in your view?