Did Jesus save us?

Originally posted by Halitose
[b]I guess then did Jesus know he was saving the rest of mankind?

Mat 20:28 [Jesus said:] Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.[/b]

Jesus said He also came to seek and to save the lost.

Originally posted by Halitose
[b]I guess then did Jesus know he was saving the rest of mankind?

Mat 20:28 [Jesus said:] Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.[/b]

Would that "many" include future generations?

Originally posted by masscat
The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus (37 - circa 100). wrote an eye-witness to of Jewish history of the period.

mmm. Of all the possible extra-biblical references to Jesus, this is the least reliable, masscat. You might want to reconsider invoking Josephus as your proof on an HJC.

Originally posted by David C
mmm. Of all the possible extra-biblical references to Jesus, this is the least reliable, masscat. You might want to reconsider invoking Josephus as your proof on an HJC.

Why do you sat that? I know of almost no Bible scholars (both secular and Christian) who whould deny that Jesus actually existed. The argument is over who he was and what he did.

Anyway, the earth is flat, the Holocaust never happened, there was never slavery in the US, and man never walked on the moon. Nobody can prove otherwise, and to believe those things is stupid because they can't be proved.

Originally posted by masscat
The argument is over who he was and what he did.

Why do you sat that?

The passages in Josephus bear undeniable signs of interpolation. That is to say the references to Jesus do not appear to have been written by Jospehus, but added at a later time by author(s) unknown.

I know of almost no Bible scholars (both secular and Christian) who whould deny that Jesus actually existed.

Fine, provided you realize that doesn't mean there aren't any. Please also try to keep in mind, Historians are probably a better source of information and analysis than ill-defined "biblical scholars", as they are more likely to be unclouded by blatant presupposition of the "truth" in the biblical narrative. Linguists would also make a better choice.

Anyway, the earth is flat, the Holocaust never happened...

Yes, yes, I've heard it all before, Lucy Jr. There is verifiable evidence for Abraham Lincoln's existence, documents he signed, photo- and lithographs of the man. Mountains of governmental documents referencing him as the 16th POTUS. There are minted Roman coins bearing the likeness of Julius Caesar. There is empirical evidence for a moon landing. What there isn't, masscat, is any reliable extra-biblical evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ. In fact, the astonishing lack of any such real evidence makes the case all the more curious...because there is no denying the existence of Christianity itself.

Originally posted by Conrau K
Now time for a non-evolution, [hopefully] non-anatgonistic thread.

Is there any evidence that Jesus' death on the cross saved further generations and not just the people of his time?
I understand that the early church believed that Christ would return very soon in the parousia. However, later generation decided that Jesus' second coming seemed to be d ...[text shortened]... to future christians.

I'm not trying to rile people up. So don't come out attacking me.

One of the few things I know for certain in this life or world or whatever, that can never be brought into question by anybody's accusations and jabs is that...

JESUS SAVED ME!!!!

I am a future generation. There are others who would say the same thing. Many them probably are not genuine, though. Unfortunately, many people confuse salvation with earned merit. While I was a sinner, an enemy of God, Christ died for me to reconcile me to God.

Originally posted by David C
[b What there isn't, masscat, is any reliable extra-biblical evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ.

It's something you either believe or you don't. Just out of curiosity, what happens when a person dies? Any thoughts?

Originally posted by Big Mac
[b]One of the few things I know for certain in this life or world or whatever, that can never be brought into question by anybody's accusations and jabs is that...

JESUS SAVED ME!!!!

I agree...the same thing happened to me.

Originally posted by masscat
It's something you either believe or you don't. Just out of curiosity, what happens when a person dies? Any thoughts?

It's something you either believe or you don't.

Fair enough.

Just out of curiosity, what happens when a person dies? Any thoughts?

Sort of off-tack, but OK. When we die our vital functions cease...heart, lungs, brain, etc. Eventually, our tissues begin to decay (dust to dust, if you will). As for the consciousness that is "you", that is a matter for speculation. However, given that any recordable brain activity and function ceases entirely, it leads one to the conclusion that, too, shall pass away. Not too comforting, I know...I suppose that is part of the reason believing in "eternal life through the sacrifice of Jesus", "martyrdom to the glory of Allah", or whatnot is so attractive to some.

May i join the conversation?

Speaking about life after death is like describing a land you never visited or heard of. Unless someone who visited that land comes back and tells you about it. This is exactly what happened with Jesus. He died, but returned to life and told us to believe in him, so we can join his life-after-death.

It's all in the New Testament. Why not take these writings serious and read them yourself instead of taking for granted the so-called 'scientific' consensus with regard to the reliability of the bible? There's nothing scientific about excluding the possibility that something occurs, which has never occured before or will ever occur again.

Originally posted by masscat
The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus (37 - circa 100). wrote an eye-witness to of Jewish history of the period. Josephus included the following account: ... text shortened :"
And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared. "

😞